Zelensky's former press secretary speaks out on corruption, the war, and obstacles to peace
Tucker Carlson interviews Zelensky's former press secretary, who speaks candidly about her time working for the Ukrainian president from 2019 to 2021.
Summary
Tucker Carlson interviews a woman who served as President Zelensky's press secretary from 2019 to 2021, and who speaks at length about what she describes as Zelensky's true character, his corruption, his manipulation of Western allies, and his role in prolonging the war with Russia. She argues that Zelensky is a malignant narcissist who has never genuinely pursued peace, citing two specific moments — the Istanbul negotiations in 2022 and the end of that same year — when she believes the war could have been ended but was not. She describes Zelensky privately invoking Goebbels-style propaganda, approving money-laundering schemes from within government ministries, and using the front lines as political punishment. She also addresses widespread allegations that Zelensky uses cocaine, stating that while she never personally witnessed it, numerous people she interviewed for her forthcoming book confirmed they had seen it, and she describes a pattern of behavior — including 15-minute bathroom breaks before interviews — that she finds consistent with those accounts. She also recounts her personal involvement in a New York Times piece about Hunter Biden's role on the Burisma board, and the reaction it prompted from Zelensky's office. She closes with a brief personal statement in Russian addressed directly to Vladimir Putin, though the translated content is only partially captured in the transcript.
Key Takeaways
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Introduction and background
Tucker Carlson: I'm amazed. I never thought I would speak to anyone around Zelensky. And I know you're doing this at some great risk to yourself, so thank you very much. You were Volodymyr Zelenskys's press secretary.
Guest: Yes. First of all, thank you for having me. And I never expected to see myself here talking about my former boss, Zelensky. I used to work for him for two years, from 2019 to 2021.
Tucker Carlson: How did you wind up working for him?
Guest: Zelensky announced the job via Facebook and everybody started applying. I didn't want to apply at first because I thought he would take someone nepotically. But there was an open application and I went through 4,000 applicants — that's not a joke. I needed to prove myself that I could do the job and that he could trust me. We found common ground and I think I was very faithful towards him. I supported him, and I supported him in 2022 when Russia made its large-scale invasion. Like millions of Ukrainians, I was grateful that he stayed in the country. That's why it's so strange and desperate for me to be here and to talk about who he really is. I don't have a personal vendetta, but I believe that he is one of the biggest obstacles towards peace today. I wanted to tell people who he is.
Tucker Carlson: Who is he?
Guest: First of all, he's not the person you see on camera. He's a very different person. He changes masks all the time. He is emotionally uncontrollable. He doesn't control his emotions. He's often hysterical, and he thinks that every person is disposable. He doesn't have the empathy that he plays. He's an absolutely insanely great actor, and that brought us a lot of support in 2022. But his acting doesn't have any substance. Everything that he's saying is so detached from reality, and the majority of the things he says are either manipulation, or facts taken out of context, or pure lies.
Millions of people still believe that supporting Zelensky means supporting Ukraine, but today it's different. And Tucker, I would like to say I'm not here to justify the Russian invasion. I'm not here to justify Putin. What the Russian army is doing in Ukraine equals crimes against humanity. But this war is not black and white anymore. It's dark and even darker. We just see Putin as an evil. But Zelensky is also an evil. He's just a hidden one. He plays such a teddy bear on camera, but then when the light goes off, he's a grizzly bear and he destroys people.
It's almost surreal to recollect that almost every Western leader and Western delegation that came to Ukraine before the war treated Zelensky as a political novice. They saw he was low-educated, unqualified, and shallow. But then overnight he just turned into this great face of democracy. It feels like the West created the myth, fell into it, and keeps ignoring the fact that beneath Zelensky's heroic rhetoric, he keeps accumulating power. And I'm not afraid to say he keeps hollowing out the very same people he claims to save. It's pretty strong to say, I know that. But I believe people need to understand that if you want to support Ukraine, the only way to support Ukraine today is to push for a peace deal. This is the only way that Ukraine can survive, because I believe we are on the verge of extinction. Nobody is talking about two or three more years of war anymore — it just doesn't add up with the numbers, with the demography, with anything, with all the suffering that's happening in the country.
Ukraine's population collapse
Tucker Carlson: Thank you for saying that. I agree. I'm not Ukrainian, but I don't understand the point of this. Ukraine as a nation is being eliminated. That's obvious to me. It's the biggest country in Europe, so it's a big deal. Since you mentioned numbers — when you started working for Zelensky in 2019, how many Ukrainians were there in Ukraine?
Guest: Officially Ukraine is a country of 40 to 42 million people. But we had our last census, I think, in 2000 or 2001, and we did not manage to organize another one. So when I was working for the government, officials including Zelensky were citing numbers they believed — that there were 34 to 37 million Ukrainians in the country.
Now, with around 10 million or more Ukrainians having become refugees going to the West — some staying in occupied eastern regions, and even some in Russia — perhaps there are around 25 million Ukrainians in the country. And the worst thing is that 11 million of them are retired people who live on pensions of $75 to $200 per month. Ukraine is not a super cheap country where you can actually survive on that money. Just two or three weeks ago, there was a terrible story about a movie director in Ukraine who was a retired person and died at his home. His neighbor wrote that he died from hunger and cold. There were severe temperatures in Ukraine and he didn't have anyone to help him. I just wonder if we will ever know the statistics of how many people died from cold and from having no opportunities.
Tucker Carlson: You're saying that Ukraine right now has maybe 15 million, maybe fewer, working people in the entire country.
Guest: Well, you don't count children — children are not working. So I don't know how many children under 18 there are, but perhaps if we have around 10 million working people, that would be the figure.
Tucker Carlson: Wow. That's amazing. How many have died in the war? Do you know?
Guest: The numbers are very different and it's very difficult to count. Right now the official UN-verified statistics is around 15,000 civilians. The numbers of those who turned into military are not known. It's very hard to know, but in Mariupol alone it is known that there are graves for around 20,000 Ukrainians. So I think the right figure is hundreds of thousands of those who died, and we will just never know the numbers. I'm sorry — it's so painful to talk about.
Tucker Carlson: It's absolutely awful. But I'm wondering why my government, which has funded a lot of this war, can't give us a straight answer. No one seems to have an interest in finding out the real number of dead.
Guest: It's very difficult to do because how do you count in occupied territory? There is no connection with that side that would allow you to learn this information. And the other side — the Russian side — obviously has an interest in hiding the numbers.
I don't believe in the verified numbers. And many people who are military now used to be ordinary civilians — engineers, IT workers, journalists living their everyday lives — and then they turned into military. So of course they are soldiers, but they're also people, and they are dying. I've heard a lot from the front lines about cases where a person was killed, the body was brought back, and local officials just don't want to record him as having died at the front line. So they say he died from a heart attack, for instance. It happens in every war. We will never know the true number, but there are so many people who are suffering.
Corruption and money laundering
Guest: I've told you this terrible story about retired people living on outrageously low pensions. When I talk about Zelensky, I'm an insider. I talk to so many people who used to work for him or even those who still work for him. And to be clear, I believe that he stands behind many schemes of money laundering.
One of the stories is that I have a friend who was shortlisted for the position of Minister of Social Policy during the large-scale invasion. He was called and told he was one of five candidates and would be interviewed by Zelensky and Mr. Yermak, then chief of staff of the president. He was told that during the interview he would need to come up with schemes of money laundering to be financed from the Ministry of Social Policy — the ministry responsible for pensions. So when we are talking about those poor pensioners, and knowing the fact that Zelensky himself approves schemes of money laundering — is he guilty? I want your audience to respond to that. Do you understand the desperation of mine?
Why Western media hasn't covered Zelensky's corruption
Tucker Carlson: I think most people watching assume that Ukraine is corrupt and has been for a long time, and that the Zelensky regime is especially corrupt. I think Americans believe that. But there's almost no evidence that has come out in the American press. The American media has not written very much about his corruption. Why do you think that is?
Guest: I've seen good pieces about corruption, but you're right that there are not too many of them. It's very hard first of all to prove it. But I think there was also some kind of agreement — not an official one — that we all need to support Zelensky because this means supporting Ukraine. We all united to support Ukraine. But Zelensky abused this unity. He abused our belief in democracy. He abused our fight. He abused our sacrifice — Ukrainian sacrifice — and what the Europeans and Americans were doing for us. He abused the trust of so many people.
I believe that millions who still support Zelensky were looking for some great figure in politics. They wanted to believe that there is someone — a Churchill or whatever historic figure — who would really do something good for the people. And he is an amazing actor. He's going to give you what you want.
Tucker Carlson: Exactly. And that's what's happening. He still plays this great guy on camera.
Guest: But believe me, behind the camera he's very different. I worked for him for two years. For two years, this man was repeating two phrases that are very revealing. One of them was: "Ukraine is not ready for democracy" — and that is a quote. Another quote was: "Dictatorship is an order." So how on earth can a person who believes that Ukraine is not ready for democracy and that dictatorship is an order actually be the face of democracy?
Zelensky's relationship with Russia and his origins
Tucker Carlson: Someone who has canceled elections, who is not actually an elected president — I couldn't agree more. So what was Zelensky saying about Russia in 2019, 2020, 2021? Zelensky came to the presidency as the president of peace.
Guest: Yes. He made himself in Russia. The first big money he made was in Russia — millions of dollars. He was working for Russian propaganda channels and he was fine with that. He made his entire career over decades working everywhere in Moscow. By the way, when the first Russian invasion in Donbas happened and Russia annexed Crimea, he was spending time in Russia. He was finishing a movie for which he got a lot of money, and he even acknowledged this in August 2019 — he wrote that yes, he was in Russia finishing the movie in 2014 while the war was going on.
Furthermore, I'm writing a book right now — a book about the real Zelensky — and I learned a lot of facts and talked to a lot of people. This information was nowhere before, but it happened that he had several properties in Crimea. And when the war was already happening in Donbas, he was spending time in Crimea — smoking marijuana with his friends from 95th Quartile, making improvements to the property, and enjoying himself. He didn't care that Russia had annexed Crimea.
Tucker Carlson: He was vacationing in Russian-controlled Crimea.
Guest: Yes, it was May 2014. I talked to a person who was working for him — a person who was helping him put windows into the house — and that person told me different details about how Zelensky was behaving. So everything that Zelensky says is really very different from the truth.
Tucker Carlson: So he was the peace candidate.
Guest: He came promising that he would stand on his knees in front of Putin and beg Putin to stop — that's what he was promising. He was saying that Ukrainian and Russian languages are both languages that need to exist, that people speak both and it makes them stronger, that we need to be friends with Russia. He was saying all this, and that's why people voted for him. They didn't want war. Nobody wants war. There is nothing good in war. And now he has totally adopted some nationalist ideology that is not natural for Ukrainians, and he really plays it well.
Tucker Carlson: What happened? Most people in the United States were not paying attention. We sort of look up at the TV and there's Joe Biden's vice president Kamala Harris at the Munich Security Conference in January 2022 with Zelensky, saying Ukraine needs to join NATO, and he says great — that's not the behavior of someone who wants to avoid war.
Guest: One thing is that he has been escalating the rhetoric. Another thing — I was present at his meeting with Vladimir Putin in 2019 in Paris. There were very few people near him who knew the truth. He had a private conversation with Putin where he promised Putin that Ukraine would never join NATO. So his record —
Tucker Carlson: In 2019.
Guest: Yes, it was December 2019. There were very few people who know what he promised. He said no NATO, because Ukraine has never been close to NATO membership. First of all, we need to have a market economy and be a reformed country. It's not like just Trump doesn't want Ukraine in NATO or Biden doesn't want Ukraine in NATO — it's not about names. It's just that we're not ready for NATO. There is no consensus to be in NATO. It's imagination. It's lies.
He stuck to this fact of joining NATO knowing that it's impossible. He was pushing an impossible agenda and making it a condition for peace. In October 2024, he presented to the parliament a so-called victory plan, and he said that joining NATO was the most important thing, and long-range missiles for Ukraine were the most important thing. But it's ridiculous — it's impossible. And look how he uses it. He uses impossible things to justify his own agenda and to create his hero image.
For instance, remember after he left Donald Trump — he said to the journalists, "It's not so easy to get rid of me." If Ukraine is taken into NATO, he said he's ready to step down — knowing that Ukraine is not going to be taken into NATO. So it's very easy to promise something under the condition of impossible things. That's what he is doing.
The Goebbels propaganda moment
Guest: One of the most shocking moments for me personally, as part of the communications team in 2019 and 2020, was when Zelensky became really scared that his ratings were dropping and he was sure that the communications team was guilty. He gathered us and started saying that there were no positive news about what he was doing in the country. My colleague started arguing with the president very diplomatically. She was saying, "Look, there aren't so many positive things happening — you're promising things but they don't happen." She was of course very diplomatic, but that was the thought.
And he said, "It doesn't matter what's happening. The most important thing is we need a thousand talking heads, and if a thousand talking heads say positive things are happening, then people believe positive things are happening." She kept arguing and brought a very good example. She said there was a group of internally displaced people from Donbas — families who had lost their homes — and Zelensky had promised them apartments. We're not talking about thousands or hundreds — there were like ten apartments or something — and nobody had taken care of it. So she said, "If there are no apartments, people will know there are no apartments. It doesn't matter how many talking heads say there are apartments." And he said, "No — if a thousand people tell you this is happening, then this is happening."
She continued to argue and he became very irritated. He put his hands on the table, leaned forward, looked at us, and said in a very irritated tone: "I need Goebbels propaganda, if you want. I need Goebbels propaganda. I need thousands of talking heads of Goebbels propaganda."
Tucker Carlson: Meaning Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi propagandist.
Guest: Yes, Hitler's chief propagandist. We were so shocked we stopped breathing. But the thing is, I believe that in 2022 he got his thousands of talking heads globally. And many of us were not supposed to be his talking heads — we just stood for the country. We believed he would stop the war soon. We believed we needed to be united. And four years later, Ukrainians don't believe in Zelensky's agenda anymore. But still there are thousands of talking heads, and many of them just get paid for it.
Tucker Carlson: What do they get paid by?
Guest: Different things. For instance, if they're asked to conferences for moderation or for writing positive messages about Ukraine. Some oligarchs can pay. It goes from grants or something like this. In Ukraine, experts get paid from structures that are close to the government — the biggest patriots — or from grants from the European Union, for instance. I'm not saying these people are bad — in many ways they're just not aware of what's happening. They're talking to each other or to some experts or to the government and they still believe in the legend that Zelensky has ratings.
Just a week ago I was talking to an insider from the office of the president — and again, I worked for the office of the president. I know there are different ratings: ratings that are closed, just for the eyes of the president and a few in the team, and ratings that are presented to the government and to the public. The insider from politics who saw the ratings said that Zelensky is non-electable. His ratings are so low. I was looking at those ratings in 2023 and 2024 every month and his ratings were very, very low, getting lower and lower.
And here is another big revelation. When Donald Trump went out and named Zelensky a dictator and talked about his low ratings, Zelensky of course said that Donald Trump was influenced by Russians and that this was all Russian propaganda. Donald Trump was called pro-Russian, as every critic of Zelensky is. But in fact, Donald Trump got information from a lot of Ukrainians — former government officials and even current government officials, people close to Volodymyr Zelenskys. They provided evidence, documents, witnesses, everything they knew. Because when Donald Trump came to power for the second term, so many Ukrainians hoped — and still hope — that he will help achieve peace.
Zelensky's relationship with Biden and reform sabotage
Tucker Carlson: What was Zelensky's relationship like with Joe Biden?
Guest: There is a very good American journalist who wrote a book and mentioned that relationship. I also met him, and he told me in a private conversation that Biden thought Zelensky was emotionally manipulative. He also described in the book that Zelensky thought Biden was weak.
When I was there, Zelensky gave several interviews to push Biden on some agenda. I remember meeting one American diplomat who was furious about one of these interviews. He was shouting at me — it was at a party and I was not the organizer; Mr. Yermak was the organizer — and this diplomat knew that and was just so angry that he couldn't stop shouting. He shouted that the interview was either stupid or unprofessional and it shouldn't have been done that way.
When I was leaving and I resigned, there were people spreading the rumor that I was fired because I worked for Russia. This is not true. We departed on good terms. Zelensky thanked me. He wished me good luck. They wanted me to continue as an adviser to the office. So we parted on good terms.
The thing is that Zelensky was destroying relations with multiple actors in the West, including with the United States. From 2020 to 2021, for a full year, there was a reform agenda, and Zelensky was literally destroying every reform, one by one, and it was disastrous.
Tucker Carlson: What kind of reforms?
Guest: There was an agreement with the IMF in 2020. Ukraine was, as often, on the verge of default and needed money. Obviously the IMF doesn't provide money for free. There were around ten or twelve reform positions that needed to be completed. Zelensky actually did a miraculous job with the two most difficult reforms — he pressed the parliament to vote for them, which actually proved he could push through a difficult agenda. He just didn't want to.
As soon as those two reforms were pushed through, the IMF approved $5.5 billion. I was present at the conversation between Zelensky and Kristalina Georgieva. They spoke in Russian because Kristalina Georgieva is Bulgarian, and they had such trust and understanding. But as soon as the money came through — the first tranche was $2.1 billion, more than they initially wanted to give — within a few days Zelensky violated the first reform. He fired the head of the national bank for political reasons, and it was a big scandal. Georgieva called back and she never spoke Russian to Zelensky again, because she had been undermined. She had promised the board that he was a reliable man, that he had agreed to reforms, that he had proved he could push them through — and then as soon as he got the first money, he fired the head of the national bank.
Zelensky explained it to her by saying there would be another independent head of the national bank, but he would be "our" head of the national bank — he would be professional and independent, but he would come from them. He doesn't understand what he's saying. It's hilarious.
Then after that there was a justice reform, a scandal in the courts, then another and another — every reform. And the last one that was really blowing up was a corporate governance reform — the reform that was needed to be destroyed in order to enable corruption. The United States had helped Ukraine establish corporate governance standards. There is a board of independent people who oversee how state enterprises are working and ensure there is no corruption. There is a big Ukrainian oil and gas company, Naftogaz, and Zelensky dismissed the independent board and put his own people there. There was money laundering from Naftogaz at some point. Zelensky just wanted to turn this state oil and gas company into a Russian Gazprom — where you have your own person there, there are offshore accounts, and money is laundered from there.
That's when the United States was so angry that they did not prolong the sanctions against Nord Stream. Nord Stream was a pipeline that Russia was building to bring its gas to the European Union, and it was sanctioned by the United States. When Zelensky was violating all the reforms he had agreed to with the United States, at some point Biden's administration was so angry that they decided to allow Russia to finish the Nord Stream pipeline.
Tucker Carlson: And then they blew it up in the end anyway.
Guest: Yeah.
Is Zelensky personally corrupt?
Tucker Carlson: Is Zelensky himself corrupt?
Guest: There was one minister — I don't name people, okay — but he had good connections with the United States and that's why Zelensky appreciated him. There was this absolutely ridiculous story that Ukrainian ministers get very low salaries, like $12,000 per year. That's why there is corruption there. And he said, "Look, I don't need much, but I will need $5,000 per month, so $60,000 per year." Really didn't want much, but that would guarantee that he did not engage in corruption. Zelensky, of course, promised him this in his first interview and obviously did nothing about it. So the minister just started writing himself premier bonuses, and the opposition was attacking him — oh my god, $5,000 per month for a minister, such a scandal. Zelensky obviously didn't like that.
So when the first government was dismissed, this guy was invited in, and Zelensky said, "Look, I like how you work, you have good relations with the West, maybe you want to continue in the other government. But you cannot have $5,000 of official salary because it causes so much scandal." When the guy entered the room, there was Volodymyr Zelenskys here, Mr. Yermak here, and another person I know here — and there was a bag of dollars on the table. And Zelensky said, "I can give you $5,000 of official salary, but I will be giving you $5,000 of dark money every month. So you can get your salary but it's not going to be official." Which means: if Zelensky knows about it, it's not corruption. Of course.
Tucker Carlson: Do you think Zelensky and his family have gotten rich since the war began?
Guest: They have always been rich. He's playing this poor guy in his cheap sweater. He is rich, obviously. I was meeting one veteran of politics who has known Zelensky for dozens of years, and the first thing he asks me is, "Where is the money?" I'm like, "What?" He says, "I know Zelensky for many years. He has never lifted a finger for free. He would never do anything for free." I'm not law enforcement — it's something for law enforcement to prove. But I've just told you two stories already.
There was another story from another minister who called recently and said that when he was in his position, those very close people to Zelensky were actually taking a percentage from some governmental programs — an illegal percentage. He told Zelensky that they were taking really too much already, insisting on very big amounts. And Zelensky smiled and said, "Good job, guys." And he was not joking. The minister says he was not joking. He was really happy it was happening. And then the minister thought, "We are not going far with this," and resigned later.
Now in the government there are very few professionals. They are there, but very few. Mostly Zelensky puts in loyalists who will never say no and who create an agenda that is absolutely out of touch with reality. He just wants something — like he's writing his scripts for Servant of the People — and then he demands it, and people go and make up some reports, and he goes with those reports and says this is true. This is how it works. He's a PR guy, only PR. He's not a man of substance.
Yermak: Zelensky's chief of staff
Tucker Carlson: Who does he listen to? Who are his advisers? Yermak has been his chief of staff for years. He's identified in the West as Zelensky's closest friend and adviser. Is that true? And who is Yermak?
Guest: Mr. Yermak started his career at a strip club — long ago. Not as a stripper, but as a lawyer.
Tucker Carlson: At a strip club.
Guest: Yes. It was a very famous strip club. I think it was the '90s or early 2000s. It was a place where a lot of people who would later become politicians in the pro-Russian party gathered, and he was a lawyer there. I was talking to a first employee who said he had so many ambitions and absolutely no talent for those ambitions.
Then he was working for a store of luxury brands that were mostly brought in not officially — via smuggling — and that's where he also met a lot of rich people and oligarchs. 95th Quartile was also buying clothes there. Officially, Mr. Yermak says he was a lawyer at one of the biggest Ukrainian channels, and that's where he met Zelensky, who used to be a general producer of that channel. But I'm not sure where they actually met.
Yermak also made some movies about smuggling, which is very symbolic to me since he used to work in that business. He was involved in some dark affairs — mafia-level stuff — and that's how he knew a lot of politicians, not from the point of view of politics, but of how things can be done. He could be helpful to Zelensky in that way.
Their relationship was very strange, very difficult. Yermak knows that he is personally a narcissist and he knows that Zelensky is a narcissist. These are two malignant and paranoid narcissists.
Tucker Carlson: Yermak and Zelensky are both malignant narcissists.
Guest: And both very paranoid. Yermak more so.
Tucker Carlson: How paranoid?
Guest: Yermak just creates things from nowhere. You don't need to do anything — he can come up with something. It's really some kind of a sick mind, to be frank. And it was some kind of symbiosis: Zelensky had the vision and Yermak had the tools to implement the vision. It was not about politics or policies. It was more about what they wanted for themselves.
Sometimes Zelensky didn't know how to make what he wanted actually work. So he would just state his desires and Yermak would find the way. And often it happened that Zelensky would say to do this, but then Yermak would call and say don't do this, because he saw doing it differently. In general it was so chaotic that no professional could work there. They just kept saying different things, changing strategies, changing moods, changing everything all the time. They create this feeling that there's so much work and everybody works and works and works, but nothing is done.
What Zelensky wanted
Tucker Carlson: What do you think Zelensky wanted? What were his goals?
Guest: I definitely know that he thought he came forever. His first chief of staff said it once — he laughed to a minister and said, "We came forever."
Tucker Carlson: So he liked being the dictator.
Guest: Well, he is a dictator. The borders are closed now for four years — illegally. The human rights violations are enormous. The persecution of people is enormous. In 2024, when Donald Trump came to power, there was a member of parliament who wrote on Telegram: "Zelensky, now you need to stop this war. Yes, you will lose the next elections, but stop this war. Trump will push you — stop this war." And he was in jail within three days. He's still in jail. I talked to security services and they said he had never talked to Russia since 2021 — no connection — but he is accused of treason.
There are a lot of people who are persecuted. Obviously there are dirty campaigns. Everyone who criticizes Zelensky is just pro-Russian, pro-Kremlin. I will be called pro-Kremlin after this interview. I believe that American special services do their job well, and if there were any payments or contacts, obviously they would know that.
In general, the situation in the country is inhuman. I never would have thought that my country would be one where people are grabbed on the streets and forced to the front lines. I never would have thought that we would all agree and stay silent to the fact that Zelensky uses the front line as punishment.
Tucker Carlson: He uses the war as political punishment.
Guest: He was even open about that. He was saying, "If somebody does something bad, we need to punish them and send them to the front line." That was his statement. But there are people who are sent there just because they're critics of Zelensky.
Tucker Carlson: Do you know anyone who's been sent for criticizing Zelensky?
Guest: There were people from the security services who were sent publicly, and there were a few people who were sent there.
Tucker Carlson: What's the front line like?
Guest: There are different front lines. Some people find themselves in a cozy place just wearing the uniform and playing the role of some blogger. But I know people who survived when their entire units were killed. It's terrifying. My mother was treating soldiers who were sent in bad uniforms during winter to the other side, and their fingers and limbs were cut off because they were frozen. Every year Ukrainians are collecting money for uniforms, for necessary supplies. Women are cooking food for the soldiers. I'm not kidding — there are a lot of volunteers.
Tucker Carlson: But the West has sent hundreds of billions of dollars and they don't have gloves or food. Where is all the —
Guest: They have some of it. Some are looking for more. And usually people are collecting money even for weapons or for Starlinks.
Tucker Carlson: What about all the hundreds of billions from the West?
Guest: You need to track it. But look — there is a scandal right now in Ukraine where the minister of energy was fired and it is now known that he helped launder $112 million — sorry, $12 million — and those funds should have been used for a shield for the energy sector. It's a huge scandal in Ukraine. There is proven evidence from law enforcement, and behind the whole scheme is a man who worked with the Russian mafia. There is a whole scheme with offshore companies, with names behind them, and the minister of energy himself got $12 million — around 10%. And 10% is usually paid to those who help establish the scheme. So where is the 90%? That is the question.
Why Zelensky's insiders haven't spoken out
Tucker Carlson: I know I've said this before, but I'm amazed that more people from Zelensky's government haven't come forward to say this in the West, in English. Why is that?
Guest: Because people are afraid.
Tucker Carlson: What are they afraid of?
Guest: On Netflix there is a series called How to Become a Tyrant. I didn't know about it until one government official came to me and said, "I watched that series — it's what's happening in the country," and this was before the large-scale war. Everyone is afraid. Zelensky has no limits. That's the problem.
I am sitting here because I know that he is at a weak point today. And I know that there are a lot of people in his government and in his vertical of power who want peace. I'm sitting here because I want peace too. And this man is going to come up with any condition. He's going to change positions all the time just to prolong this war and to get more money. He doesn't want political suicide. Finishing the war for him is political suicide.
Tucker Carlson: I do see that.
Guest: So I'm sitting here with this belief that if he is furiously ordering people to arrange something against me, maybe in this vertical of power there will be people who will not agree now. But even two years ago, they would have done whatever he wanted.
Tucker Carlson: What do you think he would do to you for saying this if he could?
Guest: Look, I'm risking everything. I cannot return to Ukraine after this interview. I know people who get threats. A month ago there was a Ukrainian banker in Milan who fell out of a window.
Tucker Carlson: In Milan, Italy.
Guest: Yes. And Italy is investigating it. But there was one story that nobody paid attention to — a man who died when Zelensky was traveling to Mr. Biden in September 2023. This man used to be a governor of my region, Kherson region, where I'm originally from. Governors are usually very rich, very successful, strong people with a lot of money. It's very strange that he died behind some garages, supposedly having poisoned himself in a suicide. I talked to one very deep insider in a top position in the security service, and he told me this is a very strange death because this man was negotiating with Russians. He was getting his orders from Yermak. I know the middleman. And he was passing some information to Russians when Russians were occupying Kherson and then back. And then when Zelensky travels to Biden, this man makes suicide behind garages, and the security service explains that he had depression.
Tucker Carlson: He had depression.
Guest: A rich man, a strong man, a former governor — he had depression and decided to poison himself behind garages.
Tucker Carlson: So people who work for Zelensky believe that if they were to criticize him they could be killed —
Guest: Or jailed. I told you just about the member of parliament, but there are also people who sit in detention for years and the courts and the general prosecution cannot prove the guilt they are accused of. It's also treason — collaboration with Russia — for criticism. It's just political fighting, nothing more.
Tucker Carlson: What are jails like in Ukraine?
Guest: Oh, they're awful. A lot of people in one place. Now there is news that diseases are spreading. It's very cold. The food is terrible. It's a terrible place to be. It's not like an American jail. So Ukrainians can't speak up for fear of being imprisoned or killed. But why do you think Western media hasn't spoken up?
Guest: I would like to say that freedom of speech in Ukraine is in bad shape, but I believe it improved when Donald Trump came to power for the second term, because there are more and more stories coming out. Despite some journalists being sent to the front lines or attacked, materials are coming out.
When the terrible winter happened — when people were freezing in their homes without light, without water — a whole revolution started on Ukrainian Instagram. I wanted to tell you two trends, just two of multiple trends happening on Instagram right now that will show you that Ukrainians are suffering under Zelensky and don't support what he is doing.
One of the trends is people burning books of Zelensky's speeches in their fireplaces or fires, saying, "Finally we figured out why we needed those."
The second thing is very politically incorrect and I'm very sorry, but I'm trying to describe the desperation and the dark humor that Ukrainians use. A driver parks in a disabled parking spot. Another person comes with a phone asking why he parked there. And the driver responds: "I'm going to vote for Zelensky for the second time."
Tucker Carlson: You mean mentally disabled.
Guest: Yes. These are trends — not one or two reels. These are trends going viral. This is the way people are trying to shout out: we are desperate. Please stop this war. Please stop this nonsense. Please stop this autocracy. There is no reason to fight this war. It's senseless. People have lost all sense of this war.
If this war is for NATO or against NATO expansion, then Ukraine has no chance of being in NATO. If Putin is conducting this war against Zelensky, then Zelensky is the main beneficiary of this war. If this war is for returning territories, then we have been losing territories for three years. If this war is for democracy, then we have no democracy in the country. People in the frontline regions are saying terrible things. One person told me: "I don't know what we are fighting for. What's the difference between Ukraine and Russia right now? There is autocracy there and autocracy here. There is nothing democratic now. So what's the fight for?" This is not what I'm saying — this is what people from different regions are saying.
The two missed chances for peace
Guest: I believe that Zelensky had two chances to finish this war in 2022. Two chances. Now he says that 90% of Ukrainians will not forgive him giving up Donbas. Where does he get that number? There are no such numbers. Realistically, no such numbers.
I was talking to people who represented Ukraine at the negotiations in Istanbul in 2022.
Tucker Carlson: Yes, the famous negotiations where they came pretty close.
Guest: Oh, they were almost done. And I was explained in detail that they agreed on everything. Furthermore — and this is very important — they said that Zelensky personally agreed to give away territory. I was shocked at that moment. I said, "Really? Did he?" And the man told me, "Of course. He is okay with that, because it would mean the war is over." He agreed to giving away territory because that would mean the war was over. And now he stands in front of millions of audiences telling them, "I cannot give away Donbas." He is inconsistent. He changes positions all the time.
The second time when he could have finished the war — and the office of the president had planned it — was the end of 2022. And as I read in the New York Times, which actually confirmed my insights, the Biden administration decided to go with the plan to continue the war. It was Mr. Blinken who was advising that if Ukraine wants to fight, then Ukraine needs to fight — despite all the evidence that we could not win that war.
Boris Johnson's role
Guest: And then there is the Boris Johnson thing. Boris Johnson is a big friend of Zelensky. He's an evil man. Remember Bucha — a small town in the Kyiv region that was occupied by Russia, where terrible things and terrible deaths happened. Zelensky came to Bucha after it was de-occupied on April 4th, 2022. I remember him standing in front of journalists with this terrible look on his face, and it felt like he had gone through pain while seeing all those bodies. He was asked if he was going to continue negotiations with Russia and he said yes, yes, yes — he was going to continue. That's on camera.
Then they had all the agreements by position — about Donbas, about language, about many many things. They agreed on everything. And then Boris Johnson came. Now it is said that this is Putin's lies, but this story was told by Ukrainians — not by Russians. Ukrainians who were trying to bring peace knew that Boris Johnson influenced the decision. And Zelensky was promised everything — weapons, influence, fame — and that he would fight Russia and be a great hero. And that's everything Zelensky wants. He doesn't care about people. He cares about staying in power. He cares about being a great hero in history.
So I believe there were two moments where he could have finished this war, but he chose the war of attrition. I don't know how 25 million Ukrainians who stay in the country can fight a war of attrition with Russia, which has a population of 140 million people — a Russia that in four years has not even borrowed to finance this war, while Ukraine has a debt of 100% of GDP, a Russia that despite sanctions still tries to sell its products.
Tucker Carlson: And Ukraine has no market economy. Russia is so much bigger than Ukraine that Ukraine could never win. It's just too big.
Guest: The New York Times wrote a story in 2023 with the title "Ukraine Will Need to Choose Between People and Territories." And we are indeed choosing — and our leader is choosing territory.
Tucker Carlson: I'm not an expert on Eastern Europe, but I have Wikipedia. I looked up land mass, population, industrial capacity. You don't need much information to know this country cannot beat that country in a land war. It was obvious. I don't understand.
Guest: I think it's obvious to Zelensky too. But he thrives on this war. He thrives on this war. Why would he finish it?
Tucker Carlson: Well, because it's destroying his country.
Guest: I don't think he thinks about that. In 2024, I was talking to a very smart man who knows Russia and Ukraine very well — he used to be an adviser to presidents, and he's American. He said to me that Zelensky would finish the war by the end of 2024. I said no, he won't. He said, "Why? He's losing territories. Russians will go to Dnipropetrovsk and other regions." He named all those regions of Ukraine. And I said this is not the reason for him to stop.
And the man could not understand — he said, "But why? You're going to lose the territories. You're going to lose more." And I said this is not how he thinks. He imagines life limited to what he sees from his beautiful golden office. And the man said, "Okay, there needs to be a point where he will understand that Russians are winning — maybe when Russians are at the door of his office." And I said, "Yeah, that's where he will understand."
Tucker Carlson: So it sounds like he doesn't care very much about Ukraine.
Guest: He never cared. He never cared about the people. That's the point. Let's just check the facts online. At the Munich conference, Zelensky insisted that ceasefire is the condition for peace, for negotiations, and for elections — knowing that Russia is against a ceasefire. It's like the NATO story. If you go online and check his speech to the UN General Assembly in September 2024, he was saying that no ceasefire is possible, that it's very irresponsible to ask Ukraine for a ceasefire, that a ceasefire will lead to a frozen conflict — he was going against a ceasefire all the time.
Then in June 2024 there was a peace summit where Ukraine presented Zelensky's peace formula. There were 160 delegations from different countries, and I truly believe those delegations wanted to discuss peace. There were discussions about energy security, returning children, and other things. Switzerland suggested they invite the Russian delegation — maybe even Vladimir Putin. And the office of the president was very much against it and even organized a media campaign saying it was absolutely morally impossible to talk to Russia or to Putin — that we need just to pressure, no negotiations with Russia.
At the same time as he was presenting the formula of peace, Ukraine was organizing the Kursk region operation. How do you offer the world a peace formula and at the same time plan an operation to invade the Kursk region? These are very inconsistent things.
Then after his peace formula, he offered a victory plan with completely different things. Then in November 2024 he said he would agree to temporary occupation of some territories if the other government-controlled territory of Ukraine was included in NATO. Then within several days he said he was misinterpreted. I'm giving you so many examples of him changing the conditions and preconditions to end this war — because he doesn't want to end this war.
I counted, with my insights, around seven attempts to finish this war where he used different mediators, different countries. He promised those mediators, those countries, those leaders that he would start negotiations, that he would agree to conditions — and he always lied.
Why Western countries keep funding the war
Tucker Carlson: I'm not giving him a pass. But Ukraine has a 100% debt-to-GDP ratio, limited industrial capacity — it can't fight a war without Western aid, period. And so it's France, the UK, the United States that are paying for all this. Why would the Western countries want to keep the war going? Obviously they do.
Guest: This is a very good question. To be frank, I think the approach that Donald Trump's team offered is a very constructive one. In any case, Ukraine wouldn't survive without aid. But one thing is to plan investment — to boost businesses, provide jobs, pay taxes, recover the economy, and have returns. And another thing is just to provide money for the war. I believe that the governments gave so much money and some of those governments just cannot back down now. They cannot say that they gave that money to a dictator, because they're afraid about their own ratings and their own situation.
Right now some Europeans — members of parliament — are saying that Ukraine was undermining them because of corruption. Ukrainians are begging: please just open your eyes. Help us stop this war. It's not about your ratings. It's about people paying with blood.
Tucker Carlson: Of course. But it sounds like that's not going to be possible as long as Zelensky is there. The war won't end as long —
Guest: I believe that he will finish this war. I don't —
Tucker Carlson: It sounds like it won't. If there have been seven attempts to finish the war and his only position has been that the war needs to continue, he's clearly not the guy to end the war. So how do you get Zelensky out?
Guest: That's a good question and I'm not the one to answer it.
Tucker Carlson: Well, there are no elections.
Guest: We are in a legal trap. The last time he was planning elections, he actually didn't want to lift martial law and wanted to have a one-round election so that he could manufacture the result. This is in an article on a very reliable Ukrainian media outlet — journalists talked to insiders from the office and from the parliament.
Just another example. There was the Munich Security Conference and Zelensky assaulted the Prime Minister of Hungary, Mr. Orbán. If you're a rational person, think about this: the leader of Ukraine stands in front of all the leaders and keeps assaulting one of the European leaders. In a week, this European leader will need to vote for a 90 billion loan for Ukraine. And obviously Orbán just blocked everything. And everybody is pointing fingers at Orbán — how bad Orbán is. Perhaps he is. I'm not justifying Orbán here. But if you are a leader of a country, how on earth do you assault a person from whom you will need support for a 90 billion loan without which Ukraine just cannot go further?
Tucker Carlson: That's a great question. And I watched him do the same thing to Donald Trump.
Guest: Absolutely. Can I finish this moment? The conflict that has escalated recently is about an oil pipeline. Hungary was getting Russian oil through Ukraine, and it's damaged. And Zelensky made this again a huge performance, as if he is a brave hero fighting against Russian oil, Russian gas, all things Russian. At the same time, Ukraine on a technical level is repairing the pipeline. The European Commission is insisting that it be done as fast as possible, and Ukraine is sending explanations to the European Commission saying it will take some time but they're offering another pipeline so there is no energy crisis. So the work is there, and Zelensky is just performing something in his head.
And the other important thing — do you know that it was France, not Hungary, that bought the biggest number of Russian energy products last year, including Russian LNG that it's selling to Germany? So why doesn't Zelensky go against Macron? I don't understand that.
Tucker Carlson: Well, it's a great question. I'm aware of this.
Guest: And Donald Trump — I was watching that Oval Office situation. For me it was so painful. Every time I post on my Twitter videos of ruined Ukrainian cities, I have this quote from Zelensky: "We've got beautiful cities. Come and see." How can you say that these ruins are beautiful cities?
Many people who know Zelensky characterize the situation this way: this is what's happening behind the camera — hysterical behavior, no control of emotions, manipulation, attempts to prove himself. This is Zelensky. This is how he looks all the time.
The cocaine allegations
Tucker Carlson: Is he a drug user?
Guest: This is an open secret. The thing is that I've never seen him taking drugs. However, for writing my book, I met a lot of people who confirmed that they saw him taking drugs in different clubs. Only one saw him taking drugs. In 2021, I learned who the supplier is from 95th Quartile. And I met that person.
Tucker Carlson: You met Zelensky's drug dealer.
Guest: I'm not saying he's a drug dealer. He's a man from 95th Quartile.
Tucker Carlson: What's 95th Quartile?
Guest: 95th Quartile is Zelensky's entertainment company — where he comes from. And this man behaved in a very strange way. His eyes and his behavior.
Tucker Carlson: Is Zelensky using cocaine?
Guest: Again, I have not seen that. But all these people are talking about cocaine. Yes. The second thing is — every time we were preparing for an interview, I was bringing in notes explaining who the journalist was, what he needed to say, the messaging, the questions he doesn't like. He doesn't really like reading, to be frank. Usually he tries to listen to you. And then he takes his 15 minutes in the bathroom. I'm telling you, I was always surprised that he came out a different person. Like really — always a different person.
Tucker Carlson: So you'd be briefing him —
Guest: Then he goes to the bathroom. He spends 15 minutes there and comes out energized, full of action, ready to say everything.
Tucker Carlson: Sniffing.
Guest: I don't want to say something I didn't see. But I met too many people. I met doctors. I met people who spent time with him in clubs. I talked to people who have known him for 20 or 25 years —
Tucker Carlson: And they say he's a cocaine —
Guest: And also — I don't know if you followed this — there was an allegation during his electoral campaign that he was a cocaine user, and that's why he invited his opponent, President Poroshenko at that time, to take a drug test. He went to the clinic of his friend, and when the analysis was presented, it happened that the analysis was dated with a different date from when he gave the samples.
Tucker Carlson: Ah.
Guest: That was a big scandal. The allegation is everywhere. There are many people who have been saying this for a long time. And there is this very strange behavior, obviously. There are a lot of things that point to it, but I personally have not seen it.
Tucker Carlson: But you spoke to his cocaine supplier from 95th Quartile.
Guest: Not for the book. I met him in the office of the president. I didn't know about cocaine back then. But I was very surprised by his behavior. His eyes were sparkling and he was so happy and slow and he was trying to make some jokes that I didn't understand. I thought, this is a strange man — and I didn't know what he was doing there because he didn't have any position. He just came to the office of the president.
Zelensky's wife and personal character
Tucker Carlson: What's Zelensky's wife like?
Guest: Many people who know her respect her. Many people were saying that she was the only human who stayed nearby him. She really didn't want him to go for a second term. She even said this publicly. But I believe she has changed. And I don't know if she still has that positive influence on him that she used to have. Zelensky never thought that women are equally important. He respects his woman, but not as if she's really equal — if that makes sense.
Once I was in a very weird situation — I was in many weird situations with Zelensky, it was just the norm. There was his friend from 95th Quartile, and Zelensky and I — three of us. For some reason this man started telling what he thought was a very funny story: that Olena Zelenska had been running after Zelensky for eight years to make him marry her, and he was a strong man who didn't want to marry. Ha ha. Very funny. Zelensky was smiling a lot and he liked the story. I still don't understand what was funny about that.
I think Zelenska is a smart person, but she doesn't care about and doesn't know anything about politics and she doesn't want to be involved. She tried to stay human. I'm not sure what worked out in the end.
Life in Ukraine and the decision to leave
Tucker Carlson: When did you leave Ukraine?
Guest: I would prefer not to talk about that.
Tucker Carlson: Okay.
Guest: I stayed in the country in 2022. We were shelled. By the way, when Russians were leaving Bucha, we were shelled. It's just pure luck that it didn't hit the house. My husband went to the front lines. We stayed in 2023, the majority of 2024, the beginning of 2025. And I had so many sources saying that Zelensky is not going to finish this war. People are going crazy there. I was going crazy. You're like in a closed cage. You're being shelled and bombed. You can die any moment from a Russian drone or Russian missile. At the same time, you can't do anything. There are no economic opportunities. There is no freedom of speech. Anything you do can be treated in a different way. The country is full of bans. Everything is banned.
There are strange rules — like a very strange rule that all cars need to stop at 9:00 a.m. on the roads to listen to the national anthem. If you're driving and it's 9:00 a.m. and the Ukrainian anthem comes on, you need to stop. There are really strange things and it looks surreal. I don't recognize Ukraine anymore.
Tucker Carlson: Everything is banned — what does that mean?
Guest: He uses bans like — there is this culture that he developed, the culture of banning and canceling people: artists, churches, poets, writers — anything he can connect to Russia somehow. Sometimes it doesn't have any connection to Russia. It always makes us weaker. Sometimes these are Ukrainians from the past who happened to live under the Russian Empire or the USSR.
There is this whole culture of cancellation. He cancels bloggers, journalists — not personally, but he has this tendency. For instance, in late 2023 I learned from the security service that Zelensky collected his people and told them they needed to go against critical bloggers. At the beginning of 2024 there were arrests of bloggers. Bloggers were called to the security service and asked why they said this, why they said that, and told they would be accused of being pro-Russian. There was a group of bloggers who went against the war and said we don't need the borders of 1991, we want to stop this war — and all of them were called to the security service. One man had to leave the country. He was threatened.
Every story can become a bigger story. It can become a story with the security service. It can become a case of treason. By the way, cases of treason have risen multiple times in four years. Treason is just another punishment.
Tucker Carlson: He sounds like a Bolshevik.
Guest: In many ways, it feels like the USSR that we read about.
Tucker Carlson: In many ways, it is. So just to restate the question — is there any way to get rid of Zelensky?
Guest: You know the problem — how to do this in a legal way, and who is going to be next? Who's going to fight Zelensky on the electoral field, and how to restore the electoral field in general? There are so many questions that are not being solved at all. And I'm not sure he wants to solve them. So one big question to all the Ukrainians and Westerners who have resources, who have power, who are strong enough — is actually how to make it happen in the legal field, how to finish this.
And that's the answer to your question about why Ukrainians are silent. Rich people are afraid of being sanctioned. It's also a legal instrument that Zelensky uses — he sanctions his own citizens, which is absolutely unconstitutional. He sanctions his own citizens and people accept it.
Tucker Carlson: How can you sanction your own citizens?
Guest: He uses it — he sanctions his own citizens. That's pretty public, on his website. He comes up with reasons like working for Russia or whatever.
Tucker Carlson: And what happens when you're sanctioned?
Guest: Your businesses can be closed, your accounts frozen. The former president is sanctioned. So he says he cannot use his money anymore.
Why Zelensky reversed his position on NATO
Tucker Carlson: Just to go back to something you said earlier that I should have followed up on. When you were working for Zelensky, he told Putin in 2019 that Ukraine would not join NATO. Then a couple of years later he's telling the world that Ukraine does plan to join NATO, which you said is impossible. What changed his mind?
Guest: I definitely know that he wanted to influence the American administration. He wanted to get something — support, friendship, something. I remember the interview. I remember who that interview was given to when he first said, "Why are we not in NATO?" It was a TV interview and I was preparing the messages. It had never been in the messages. We never discussed NATO at all — it was not on the table. And he was sitting there and the journalist asked him, "So what would you tell or ask Biden about?" And he said, "Why aren't we in NATO?" I started looking at the messages and there was no NATO thing — he just came up with it.
And Zelensky is the kind of person — if you applaud, he's going to continue. There were a lot of nationalists who applauded, who felt, "Oh, that's great stuff, do it." And so he saw the reaction. Since his ratings were dropping and there was positive feedback, he just started pushing through this agenda.
I read the book about Biden, and there was a description of the meeting in 2021 — a few months after I left — where Zelensky insisted on this NATO issue with Biden, thinking that Biden was the only obstacle and that if Biden said yes, they would be in NATO. He didn't want to listen to any arguments or facts. And when Biden said, "Look, there is no consensus for this," Zelensky said, "But NATO is an outdated organization and it's going to fall apart. Germany and France are going to leave NATO now." And as the journalist explains, even those who really liked Zelensky were blown away by this. They thought he went too far. But this is who Zelensky is. He's always escalating. He's always demanding. He's always proving himself.
I was talking to one man who used to work under two or three presidents, and he said that he tells everyone that these two — Zelensky and Yermak — are just six-year-olds. He meant because they had been six years in power, now they are seven-year-olds. And I myself was thinking they behave more as teenagers. But we never had an argument that they behave as adults.
I believe Zelensky thought Biden was weak and he could pressure him and get the NATO thing — because Zelensky actually doesn't have much understanding of how things work in his own government or globally.
Tucker Carlson: Why are there so many Americans always in Ukraine? American officials are always talking about Ukraine. I know a lot of the policy makers in the United States who promoted this war. And I think that some of them wanted to destroy Ukraine.
Guest: It's very inhuman. The propaganda that we hear is very inhuman, very cynical. I mentioned to you this stuff about "Russia is collapsing" — this is already a Twitter joke. Russia is collapsing for the fourth year in a row. Mark Rutte said a few weeks ago that Russia is in super bad shape and you need just three or four more months of war to win. Where does he get that? Tell that to a Ukrainian who is dying. Tell that to the mother who buried her son or her child. Tell that to a father who lost three children and a wife under shelling. It's impossible to explain to people how politicians come up with conditions to justify this absolutely unjustified war.
Tucker Carlson: Because it's not their country and they don't care. It's evil. I couldn't agree more.
Guest: Many Ukrainians believe this already. And again — I'm not justifying Putin here. It's just that repeating that he is a monster doesn't help the situation.
Tucker Carlson: No, I agree. It's like telling us that Iran's going to get a nuclear weapon in three weeks — telling us that for 25 years. At a certain point I don't believe you.
Hunter Biden and the New York Times piece
Tucker Carlson: The former president's son was on the board of a Ukrainian energy company. Did you know that?
Guest: I was a co-author of that very famous article about Hunter Biden. And after that, Biden's administration didn't give interviews to the New York Times. I think that was very infantile behavior from the communications people. I was just a freelancer in Ukraine for six years. After that, the biggest Democratic president doesn't provide interviews to the biggest Democratic media because of some freelancer having evidence of connected topics. That's really ridiculous.
Tucker Carlson: I remember that piece — that was with Ken Vogel, I think, and Yulia Mendel. Who were you? So for whatever it's worth, for those who don't remember the piece, can you just summarize it?
Guest: It was long ago, but Hunter Biden was invited to be on the board of an energy company that was owned by a big oligarch accused of money laundering — a really big mafia figure. There was a general prosecutor who opened 11 criminal proceedings against this company. Hunter Biden figured somewhere in there. I was talking to the general prosecutor and he told me that he reopened the cases but could not prosecute Hunter Biden because Hunter Biden is an American and as Ukraine we just cannot do that. But that was the whole story — that Hunter Biden was on the board. And obviously it was not liked by the Biden administration very much. There was a huge scandal. I did just my job. I talked to the general prosecutor. I went to different people. I asked questions. I read and translated the law. I verified the information. Ken was doing the major job — I was helping him. And the New York Times stands for that piece. So why should I feel bad about that?
Tucker Carlson: I don't think you should be at all.
Guest: Yeah. What was the reaction from the Zelensky government when that piece came out?
Tucker Carlson: I'm sure it was.
Guest: He never actually reacted much. It served more like a concern for him. He didn't understand much what was happening. He just asked what the buzz was about. His people asked me. I said, "Well, there was this piece. I checked it. The New York Times stands for it. That's it." They just had concern about what was happening. But it was 2019, before Biden came to power.
To be frank, I know that for Americans it's a big story about corruption. For me as a Ukrainian, I still cannot understand what would have happened — that the Biden administration would allow Zelensky to continue this war.
Closing appeal
Guest: I agree. It's just very hard to talk about because you don't understand what's happening really — when people are being hunted by drones, when people wake up to death and destruction, when they are being abandoned, when they are being searched by the law enforcement of their own country, when they don't have heat or light or water, when they have almost no money and no help and they're not heard and they cannot leave their country. It's such a trap. And this has been happening for four years of large-scale war, and for many for 12 years.
The only solution being presented today is just to say that Putin is a monster. Well, maybe he is. His army is doing terrible things. But keeping just condemning Putin will reach nothing. My point is we need to do something as a country. We need to start taking decisions. We need to start putting people first. And what I see from Zelensky is just: "Yes, I'm taking care of the people. Yes, people are first." And then always there is a "but," and after that "but" there is a whole bunch of misleading information.
I don't believe that Volodymyr Zelenskys is really very constructive. I believe he has some kind of mental challenges. And when I'm thinking about his meeting with Biden — who, as has been proved by Alex Thompson and Jake Tapper, had really already had mental problems — I'm thinking, where did this world come to, that there is one leader with mental challenges and another person with mental challenges actually deciding on the fate of a 40 million nation?
I just don't believe that Ukraine is just being damaged. I believe that Ukraine is on the verge of extinction. We have huge brain drain, enormous problems with demography. Do you know that it was a Ukrainian who actually made the program to send the first person to space — Yuri Gagarin? Now children in the Kharkiv region in the fourth grade cannot read. My nation is deteriorating.
So there is no "but" in this case. People either go first, or there are a lot of conditions and buts about why not to stop this war. And you ask me why all those think tankers and journalists come to Ukraine — I think they come to every country and they were interested in the relations with Russia. But unfortunately there is this absolutely destructive contribution to a very unhealthy nationalism that has become a shield for the beneficiary group in the country.
Tucker Carlson: Of course. That happens every time.
Guest: I mentioned to you this stuff about "Russia is collapsing." Mark Rutte said a few weeks ago that Russia is in super bad shape and you need just three or four more months of war to win. Where does he get that? Tell that to a Ukrainian who is dying. Tell that to the mother who buried her son. Tell that to a father who lost three children and a wife under shelling. It's impossible to explain to people how politicians come up with conditions to justify this absolutely unjustified war.
Tucker Carlson: Because it's not their country and they don't care. It's evil.
Guest: Many Ukrainians believe this already. And again — I'm not justifying Putin here. It's just that repeating that he is a monster doesn't help the situation.
Tucker Carlson: I agree. So you have asked to end with a message to Vladimir Putin, in Russian. Of course I can't understand Russian, but you've done us — the United States — a great service with this interview. And so I would be happy to turn it over to you to speak directly in Russian to the Russian president.
Guest: Thank you.
[Speaking in Russian directly to camera]
"Ukraine. For Ukraine. Propaganda. Russia's army — for a stupid mirror. For the stupid..."
I don't know if he will hear me. I'm actually grateful that I didn't cry so much. I usually cry so much when I'm talking about the war.
Tucker Carlson: I appreciate everything you've done and I hope this is widely seen.
Guest: Thank you very much for giving me the platform and for allowing me to have this frank conversation. I feel like I took a lot out of myself, and that my silence could have been a contribution to this war. But now I feel like I did something real and good. Thank you.
Tucker Carlson: I think you did. Thanks very much.