Steven Bartlett interviews Manchester United captain Bruno Fernandes at the club's training ground
Steven Bartlett sits down with Manchester United captain Bruno Fernandes at Carrington to discuss his career, leadership, loyalty, and the controversies surrounding his time at the club.
Summary
Steven Bartlett interviews Bruno Fernandes at Manchester United's Carrington training ground in an in-depth conversation covering Fernandes's upbringing in Porto, his early career in Italy (including a near-loan to Watford while at Udinese and the formative influence of manager Francesco Guidolin), the dramatic phone call from his agent confirming Manchester United's interest, a near-move to Tottenham Hotspur, and his journey to becoming United's captain. Fernandes directly addresses Roy Keane's public criticism, stating that Keane misrepresented a quote and that he sought Keane's contact details in order to address the matter personally. Fernandes reveals he turned down a reported £200 million contract offer to leave Manchester United because he had not yet fulfilled his dreams at the club, a decision made in close consultation with his wife. He also discusses the cultural and structural problems at United over the years, the importance of character in recruitment, and his assessment of newly confirmed manager Michael Carrick.
Key Takeaways
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Early Life and Family Values
Steven Bartlett: To understand somebody, I always think you have to start with where they started and the early context they grew up in. We were just talking before we started recording about Porto. I'm on a journey to understand why you are the way that you are, because you're such an anomaly on the pitch. When I track the journey of where you've come from and how you continually were promoted and pushed forward at a very young age, it's clear to me that your early context, your early upbringing, and whatever was present at that age has shaped you in some very important ways. What is the earliest thing I need to understand about where you came from and that environment?
Bruno Fernandes: For me, it's all about family. It's about taking care of other people. And I think to succeed — not just in sports but in life — you need to be very careful of your surroundings. So I think the values of my family, the values of my parents, were what made me the person and the player I am today.
Steven Bartlett: The older I've gotten — I'm now 33, so I think I'm two years older than you — the more I've realized what I learned from my parents and the values that my dad in particular gave me. For a lot of things, it's not something he ever said to me. It's like modeling what he did. Seeing how he behaved. What's that for you?
Bruno Fernandes: It's kind of the same. My father was never a person to show his emotions too much or tell you what to do or how to do it. He would just do it and you would understand by his behavior, by the way things were done — that was his way of showing us how things had to be done. He was never a person of hugging and kissing and stuff. He's got into that now, even when I come out of games. I always get his hug, I always get his kiss. As a kid, I knew how much he loved me, but in those small aspects it was always my mom giving that kind of love. He was more about showing how things have to be done, how much you have to sacrifice yourself for certain things. My dad was very strong with me in terms of games.
Imagine I could come out of a game scoring two or three goals, and my dad would always pick up the bad moments I had in the game to make me understand that it was good, but it wasn't great. There's always margin for improvement. There are always small things. And I think I've learned from such a young age to deal with criticism that I'm now at probably one of the biggest clubs in terms of criticism and attention, and it doesn't hurt me. I don't like it — obviously no one likes to get criticized — but it doesn't hurt me. It doesn't change the way I behave. It doesn't change the way I want to do things. But from the other side, it makes me understand there are still things to improve. I listen to that, I look at my game, and I see if changes or improvements are needed.
My dad was always very strong on that with me. I see nowadays how parents behave, but my dad never wanted me to be a footballer. He wanted me to become a better person, a better player, a better student. Everything I wanted to do, he just wanted me to do it at 100%. If you go to a test and in Portugal it's scored from zero to 100%, and you get 98%, you'll be the happiest person in the world. You can be happy because that result is amazing. But you left 2% on the table that you can still improve. So he was always showing me that even if it was just a small thing or a small detail, there's still something more you can do, something more you can improve or become better at. That has stuck with me not just in football but in life. I don't like to do things at 50%, 60%, 70%, or 80%. Whenever I'm included in something, I want to go full. I want to learn as much as I can. I want to be the best version I can be in that aspect, whatever it is.
Starting Out: FC Infesta and Early Football
Steven Bartlett: I think you started playing football at five years old.
Bruno Fernandes: Yeah, five.
Steven Bartlett: Were you good from five years old? Were you different from your peers at a young age?
Bruno Fernandes: At such a young age, I never thought about being a footballer. I just wanted to play football for life. I was just happy playing football. I just wanted to have the ball at my feet every time, all the time.
Steven Bartlett: And you joined FC Infesta at five years old. Remarkably, I read that after one training session, they moved you into the older group and you played with people two years older than you when you were four or five years old.
Bruno Fernandes: Yeah, I was five playing with seven-year-olds.
Steven Bartlett: Why did they move you into a different group?
Bruno Fernandes: I went for the first session and it was a football session — five-a-side, an indoor thing. After that first session, they told me I needed to get on the grass. I think it comes from the fact that I looked at the other players training with me and I didn't want to be better than them — I just wanted to get at them. It was the same as getting at my brother, who was five years older than me. For me there was no difference. If I had to beat him in a one-v-one, I would beat him. If I had to tackle, I would tackle him. He was going to tackle me stronger — it doesn't matter, I tackle him again. I had no fear. And I think that was the thing that made me become better and better, because I was never the best. Technical ability — yes, I was good, but was I the best? No. Speed — was I quick? Yes, quite quick. Was I the quickest? No. Was I the strongest? No. Was I the tallest? No. But I had no fear of any of that. If I had to sprint with someone quicker than me, I would sprint with him. I might not beat him, but I would get close.
Steven Bartlett: I actually read that you were so aggressive that referees sometimes asked your coach at Infesta, Sergio, to sub you off otherwise they'd have to send you off.
Bruno Fernandes: Yeah. That's what I mean — I had no fear. I wouldn't look at faces or sizes and think, "Oh, he's bigger than me, he's going to be stronger." I would get into any ball in any moment in the game with no fear at all. This is probably the best time in my career — between Infesta and Boa Vista — because I stayed probably a year at Infesta and Boa Vista got me straight away.
Moving to Italy: Novara and Udinese
Steven Bartlett: You moved quickly up and up and up. When you were 17 years old, you left Portugal and moved to Italy to join Novara. After three months there, you were promoted to the first team. But then you very quickly joined Udinese. At Udinese, you met a guy called Francesco — I can't pronounce his surname — Guidolin?
Bruno Fernandes: Guidolin. Yeah.
Steven Bartlett: He was really formative in your career, wasn't he? You were 18 years old. Why was he such an important part of your career? What did he teach you?
Bruno Fernandes: He was the manager that probably gave me the basis and the foundation to be fearless and express myself — to get my head out of so many things that were going on. As a young kid who has just made the step into the area and is thinking, "Now is the moment I need to show myself," he was like, "You don't need to prove anything. You showed me you have the qualities when you were in the second division in Italy. That's why we bought you."
To be honest, I was on the edge of going to Watford on loan.
Steven Bartlett: Watford?
Bruno Fernandes: Yeah. Because it's the same ownership. We were getting to the edge of the transfer window. They had just bought me and they had a big squad with a lot of players, and they were like, "We're going to send you to Watford, you're going to be there playing for them." And I was like, "What have I done?" I wasn't good enough. Then in the same moment they called me to go pack my stuff — it was the last days — and I was with my girlfriend, my wife now, and she was like, "Don't worry, we're going to go anywhere else and you're going to succeed." And I said, "But why can't I make it here? What did I do wrong? Why is the manager not looking at me the same way he looks at other players?"
I don't know why, in the middle of all these thoughts, the sporting director called me again and said, "Bruno, you can't go anymore. The manager wants you to stay. He says he loves your attitude. He wants you to learn from him. He wants you to understand how he wants to play. You might not play much this season, but he's pretty sure you are the type of player that will succeed at this club."
We had many conversations, and I think when you want a manager for young players who will very quickly think, "I'm the guy now," he makes you understand: stay calm, I've got you, but you're still not there. He was like a father figure — not just for me. If you speak with every player that was there at that time, they knew they were important to him because he always showed that. That made me so much more complete in terms of understanding the moments and the process that managers go through. Whenever a manager puts you on the bench, you just think he doesn't like you. But the way he did it with me and all the players around me at that time — we were so happy. The environment was very, very good.
Dreams and Ambitions as a Young Player
Steven Bartlett: As a young man at 18 years old, what are your dreams? If I'd asked you at the time what your future looks like, what would you have said?
Bruno Fernandes: As soon as I became a professional player, I was like, "I want to be at the top clubs. I want to play for the big clubs. I want to be in the Champions League. I want to play for trophies. I want to become the players I'm looking at — I want to become like them."
Steven Bartlett: Did you think you could?
Bruno Fernandes: Yeah, always. I never doubted.
Return to Portugal: Sporting CP and the Tottenham Near-Miss
Steven Bartlett: At 22, you get a call and you return to Portugal and sign a five-year deal with Sporting in a deal worth reportedly 8.5 million. That next season, you scored 20 goals and added 13 assists, which was unheard of for a player in your position. And I read that Tottenham were interested in you at that time. It was at one point highly likely that you were going to end up moving to Tottenham. Tell me about that.
Bruno Fernandes: I spoke with Tottenham and we were very close to getting an agreement done. Then in the last two days — or one day — of the transfer window, Sporting just said, "We're not going to sell him. We're going to keep him because we need him."
Steven Bartlett: You wanted to go to Tottenham?
Bruno Fernandes: Yes, because I wanted to play in the Premier League.
Steven Bartlett: Why?
Bruno Fernandes: Because for me it's the best league in the world. It's the most competitive one. It's the one that I think when you grow up you dream to play in — full stadiums, top clubs, top players. Obviously I was lucky enough that my dream club to play in England was Manchester United, and Tottenham at the time was the option I had. I was very happy to join them because they showed me the process they were going through, the manager that was there at the time, the new facilities and everything. So I was very happy with everything I could see going forward. But it didn't happen, and for bigger reasons I guess. Then in January I got the call I had been hoping for for two or three years already.
The Manchester United Phone Call
Steven Bartlett: Tell me about that call, because I know Manchester United has been in your eye for a long time. You grew up watching people like Cristiano Ronaldo play for this club. I think when he first played for Portugal you were eight or ten years old. He had been a great star of Manchester United, and people of our age group grew up in the heyday of Manchester United, the Alex Ferguson era. So why Manchester United, and can you zoom me in — if I'm a fly on the wall — when you get that phone call from your agent?
Bruno Fernandes: I was in my wardrobe, getting ready to go to bed. My wife was just putting our daughter to bed — I only had my daughter at that time. I get the call from my agent. I knew things were going on, but after what happened with Tottenham, I didn't want to put my focus on transfer windows. I never did at any step of my career when I changed clubs. I always said to my agent: whenever it's 95% certain that the club really wants me and they're ready to make an offer, tell me, and then I'll decide if it's the right moment and I want to go. Apart from that, keep me out of it. I don't want to know. I don't want to lose focus on what I'm doing for something I can't control.
After the Tottenham thing I was even more like that, because I was basically done and then all of a sudden on the last day Sporting just said, "We're not going to make it." So he called me and said, "Bruno, you told me not to speak to you until we had something concrete. But just so you know, they already have agreement on everything. It's just on your side now to say yes or no."
And I was like, "Yes or no to what?" And he said, "Come on, you've seen the news." I said, "Miguel, the news are different every day. Every day they're going to put a new club that's interested in me. I'm not going to be focused on that." He said, "Okay, many nights are coming for you. I know this is what you want. Just so you know, this is the one you've been waiting for. It's on you now to make a decision."
For like ten or twenty seconds I didn't say anything. I was crying, but I didn't want to talk because your voice starts going a little bit chalky. Then all of a sudden my wife comes into the wardrobe and says, "I'm still on the call." And she goes, "Why are you crying?" And him on the phone says, "Are you crying?" I turned that off and said, "Miguel just called me." In the moment I'm trying to explain to my wife what's going on, he's calling me repeatedly — "I need an answer" — and my wife was like, "Why are you crying? This is what you've dreamed for. This is the moment you've been waiting for." And I was like, "I don't know, it's just too much. I never expected after everything that happened with Tottenham that I would get the chance to come to the Premier League again. And having the chance to come to the Premier League with Manchester United — it's 100% of the dream complete."
So obviously I just called him back and said, "I don't even want to know anything else. Just tell them I'm going."
Obviously I was very good at Sporting and very happy there because I really enjoyed my time there — it was when I became probably the best version of myself as a player, where I improved so much in those two and a half years. But then it was like the dream of playing in the Premier League, and I think every Sporting fan really understood that it was the right moment for me to go and take the next step.
Joining a Club in Transition
Steven Bartlett: When you join, you're joining the club at a time when it was in a bit of turmoil, struggling. Sir Alex Ferguson had left. The club had cycled through a bunch of managers and had Ole Gunnar Solskjær as manager at that point. I think the club was seventh in the Premier League when you joined. It was going through a time of turbulence. You knew Manchester United wasn't the most stable club in the world, but you chose to come here anyway. Based on your record at Sporting, you would have had a lot of other opportunities to join a more stable club. As someone that runs businesses, the environment you join has a huge impact on everyone's behavior. You chose to join a club that was at the time unstable.
Bruno Fernandes: The game I looked at before I came was, I think, Burnley versus United — United lost at home 2-1, or something like that, just days before I came. And I was like, "I still think there's a lot of potential in that team." And apart from having potential, I'm joining one of the biggest clubs in the world. I know that clubs go through periods where things don't go the way they want, but sometimes it's not just because they're not great — it's just because other teams are being better than them. And that's fine, because in football you're not going to win all the time. But what you can do is bring your own values, your own experience, your own qualities, and try to help everyone around you to become better, to become the team you want to see.
At that time, that period — then we had the COVID time and all that — but that period from there to the end of the season, the team was unbelievable. The season after we got second place. We struggled in certain moments keeping up to the standard of City, who had a very good end of season. But for me it was never like, "I'll fix that." It was more like, "I'm going to be the magic powder that solves all the problems." I really knew this club had something special, and for me to join it was like I can be part of something that is going to become great again. I still believe that. Obviously it can take time — it's taking more time than I thought, yes, of course. But at that time I had too many dreams in my head, and they're still here. There are still a lot of things I want to achieve. But this smile and this guy that came here in 2020 is still the same guy that wants to win and succeed at this club.
Culture at Manchester United
Steven Bartlett: I know a little bit about the environment when Sir Alex Ferguson was here because I've interviewed a lot of his players. Having been to Carrington before, sitting in the hospitality lounge, waitresses coming over and talking about when Sir Alex Ferguson was here and how he knew everyone's name — and then how it changed. It was really interesting to get a lot of this feedback because it highlighted how small things in culture can have a big impact. There's a story that Gary Neville told me about Wendy and her charity balls — players walking past Wendy, who got the charity ball signed for a local charity, and one day a couple of them didn't sign it. Sir Alex Ferguson came downstairs and quote "killed us." It's a strange thing to care that much about a small detail in culture, but over time Gary told me he understands why Sir Alex Ferguson cared so much. My question is really about the cultural evolution at this club. What the fans are desperate to know is how it's changed and how it feels different from the time you arrived in 2020 up until today.
Bruno Fernandes: I've brought my behavior, the way I've been raised, all these things. And I think every different player has brought different things to the club. But one of the things that has to always be there is respect for people. For me, that's a non-negotiable. If any player comes to this club and doesn't respect the physios, the stewards, the people at all the desks, the people that work in the restaurant, the chefs — all these people around us taking care of us — even if you don't see it or think about it, for me it's a non-negotiable. The respect has to always be there. And more than respect, the care. You need to care about them, because if you have a good foundation, a good base of respect and care in your club, it's going to get better. The environment gets better. Everything is more positive.
This is probably the way I've been raised. I treat everyone the same way. I don't treat players differently from the cleaning lady or the people at the front desk or the stewards at the entrance. If I say good morning to these ones, I say good morning to those ones. If I give a handshake to these ones, I give a handshake to those ones. If I greet them the same way I greet my teammates, they will feel part of it. They will feel involved. They will feel as important. Even knowing that the roles are completely different — because the role of a CEO is one thing. But if the cleaner doesn't clean everything nicely and leave everything prepared and well done, you will notice that something is wrong. You will notice this is not the place where you want to work. You don't want to be the CEO of a company that has trash everywhere. So why wouldn't you greet the person that takes care of you, takes care of your place, makes it look so good and makes an impact when people come in from outside?
Steven Bartlett: It reminds me of something Jony Ive said. He's the famous Apple designer that designed all the Apple products we know and love. He said it's very hard to feel care, but everyone can feel when someone didn't care. You go to a restaurant and they didn't care — small things. He said care is just this thing in the background, this ambient feeling you have when you arrive somewhere, but you can't point out exactly what it is. You can feel it.
Bruno Fernandes: That's the thing. I think it's more that you feel it but you don't see it. And touching this point about cleaners — my mom was cleaning houses for work. So I never wanted the people that were cleaning the house to treat my mom badly or downgrade the work she was doing for them. For example, now I have a person that works in my house. I don't allow my kids to talk badly to her. I don't allow my kids to say, "Grab that and put it in place." I said it to her on the first day she came to work: "If something is not in the right place, obviously I want you to clean, I want you to put things in place. But I don't want my kids to tell you to arrange that or put this in place. If they want something, they can ask you, but in a respectful way. If it's something they can do themselves, you have to make them do it. Not 'oh, you do it' — no. Explain them how to do it, show them the way so they learn."
This probably comes a lot from my background — not wanting to see my mom treated that way. My mom never said to me that any of the people she worked for were bad to her or treated her badly. But I really think that made me understand: because I don't want that for my mom, I won't do that to other people.
Recruitment, Character, and the Post-Ferguson Era
Steven Bartlett: I've been a Man United fan since I was a kid. My siblings were born in Manchester. I was born in Botswana in Africa, but because I've got two older brothers who are Man United fans, I very quickly became one too. I remember being three or four years old, and as soon as I could, when I was 18, I moved up from the southwest to Manchester and went to my first Manchester United games. I've seen the club go on this incredible journey from the Ferguson era to this period of transition to where we are now. My honest observation is that after the post-Fergie era, the club made some bad decisions as it relates to recruitment and culture. People often talk about Ed Woodward's strategy towards signing players being a bit flippant. Looking at the group of lads we had, as a United fan watching on the pitch, I felt the culture was a bit confused — it didn't seem like there was a strong central agreement around values. It felt like we had signed players because they were famous or big, but not because they fit. When I look at the club now, I go, "These guys kind of fit." Whoever's doing recruiting is thinking about character. It feels like there's been a process over the last couple of years of getting rid of the wrong character profiles. Patrice Evra told me he met Sir Alex Ferguson in an airport in France, and Sir Alex sat him down and said, "Are you willing to die for Manchester United?" And he said, "Yes." So he shook his hand and said, "Welcome to Manchester United." That's a different way of recruiting — he's not testing if he can kick a ball well. He's testing if he's got the heart and the mentality.
Bruno Fernandes: I think the main mistake the club made through the years was changing manager to manager with very different managers — and that's already a bad sign for recruitment, because then you bring in players that fit that manager. But the next one plays a completely different way, and the three or four or five you bought don't fit this one anymore. Then you have to buy another four or five. The constant change of strategy in the club, in the way we wanted to play, was not the best, because then obviously it becomes that the players don't suit anymore.
We can talk about character — there were certain players that were not a perfect fit for the club — but you never know until you bring them to the club. I think sometimes you can see it. There are players where, by the behavior they have on the pitch or on social media, you can see if they will be a fit for the club or not. But the main thing, as you said, is you need to bring good characters, because that will be more important to build something than good qualities. Good qualities they will all have — you don't bring a player to Manchester United that doesn't have qualities. But if you can add the qualities to the character, that's a win-win, because the qualities will have moments where they won't be as good as you want — players go through periods where they play very good, sometimes very bad — but the character remains the same. And that's the character you want: when they are on a low, to be the right character to push themselves to be on a high, and at the same time when they are on a low, to be the right character to push the other ones to be at the top level.
The main thing the club has to do in terms of recruitment is bring people who first of all want to be at Manchester United, not just because it's a big club. They want to be here because this is the club they think they want to succeed with. They want to bring this club back to the days we were used to seeing Manchester United. I know it's been 12, 13 years. But we want to get as close as possible to becoming that club that won 20 Premier League titles. Character in a football club is more important than quality, because the quality you're always going to get and you can improve it.
I think Sir Alex obviously made mistakes in recruitment too, because not every player was great. But he always brought players that in any time and any moment would fit the club. The recruitment has to be for Manchester United, because the player will normally get a five-year contract and the manager will get two. And you know that if something is not working, the club always gets rid of the manager first, then the player, because it's much more difficult. So you always have to bring players that fit the club, and then bring managers that fit the club and the players you've got.
That's why, for example, City and Pep were so successful — because they chose the players in togetherness with the club that would fit the club, the system, and the way they wanted to play. Through the years they've made mistakes, of course — they've bought players that didn't work — but I think there were more that worked than didn't. And the ones that didn't work, I haven't seen many of them coming out and talking badly about the club or the manager. It's difficult when a club buys you for 50, 60, 70 million and then you don't play when you thought you would. But what I've seen is that they built in a way that the squad was strong enough to take care of those players that were not playing and were struggling.
Social Media and Dressing Room Discipline
Steven Bartlett: One of the things I've noticed as a change, especially this season, is all this social media distraction — people posting on their Instagram stories when they don't play, a brother or sister posting "my brother should be playing." All of that social media stuff that some players were doing over the last couple of years seems to have vanished. Is that something the club has done? Have they sat you down and said stop the social media stuff, or is it just a consequence of getting the right people together?
Bruno Fernandes: I think it's a little bit both. But at the same time, I think the club has to be the one being strong with the players when they see something that is not right or they don't like, or it's not good for the players, the team, or the attention this club gets. The club needs to talk with them, and with the agents and the families, because it's also on the players to make the families and everyone behind them understand that what they put out or what they say can have consequences on our careers.
If I see something I don't like, or if I see them posting or replying to people on social media — from such a young age I said to my parents, my brother, my sister: I don't want you talking without me knowing, not because they don't know how to talk, but they're not aware of what can be bad or wrong. They might think they're going to say something good for me, but it might have repercussions on other people. So my parents never spoke, my brother never spoke, my sister never spoke when I wasn't playing. Let people make noise, let people talk. Doesn't matter what they say. I know for my mom, for example, she suffers a lot with this. And I say, "Take it in. Don't care. Pray to your saints like you did for me all the time, and make sure they do the right thing for me, because that's what matters." She kind of gets okay with that. Obviously I know that probably when my brother or sister sees something, they want to reply, they want to say it's not true. But I don't want them to get involved in that because it's not going to be good for them, not going to be good for me, and it's not going to be good for my environment.
I don't go home to my family and say, "This manager this, that manager that." I might say what I like or don't like, but I don't go in a way of, "Oh, if I had someone that could put something out because I've been doing this..." I don't care about people putting out, "Oh, Bruno is training so well, Bruno is doing this, Bruno is doing that." I know I'm doing it. That's enough for me.
Navigating Multiple Managers
Steven Bartlett: It's true, because you've been through this process of transition with Ole, then Carrick, then Ralf, then Erik, then Reuben, then Fletcher, then Carrick again. And one of the remarkable things is I've never noticed your attitude towards the managers be any different. I can't tell. As far as I'm aware, you support them all. And that's how it should be. I think if you've got a problem, as a player you should go tell them. But we shouldn't know, and with you, I don't know what you think of them.
Bruno Fernandes: I agree with that. First of all, I like every manager that comes my way because I learn from them. Every manager that comes in has their own idea, their own thinking, their own way of playing. They want me to do one thing, the next one another thing, the next one another thing. And for me, that's good because they believe I'm capable of doing different things than I was doing before. What I won't give to the managers is the choice or the option in their head to think, "I'm not going to play Bruno."
Steven Bartlett: What do you do when you're not happy about something, as the captain? Do you go have a chat with them?
Bruno Fernandes: I do whatever they want me to do. If they think it's the best thing for the team, I'm going to do it — whether I agree or not, whether I believe in it more or not. I make myself available for what they want to do, 100%. If it works or not, that's on them to decide if it needs to be changed. I'm not going to go to the manager and ask them to change formation or the way they play. If they ask me, I give my opinion. If they don't ask me, I don't say anything.
Steven Bartlett: What have you learned about what a good manager does and how to be a good manager from the six managers you've had?
Bruno Fernandes: Through my career, I've always heard that certain players should be treated in a different way than other players. I don't believe in that. It's like the same as having a business — you bring certain people to do certain things because you believe they're the right person to do that. I don't think you should then change the way you behave with them. You should probably approach them in different ways — I believe in that, because I'm not the same as you.
Steven Bartlett: Do you treat players differently on the pitch? You shout at lots of your teammates. Are there some you won't shout at as much?
Bruno Fernandes: I treat all of them the same. During the week we train something, we've seen images of it, we know what we have to do, the manager has prepared us for that. I demand that — I don't care who you are. We've been a full week preparing the training, the game, for this. We need to know how to do it. Then if you can make a pass or score a goal or make a tackle, that's different — those are the individual qualities I need from each one. But I've learned to talk with them in different ways while achieving the same end result. I won't be scared of saying things to one player and then shout at another because he's younger. If I have to shout at this one, I'll shout at this one. If I have to praise this one, I'll praise this one in the same way I praise that one.
You can see in my interviews — I'm not afraid of saying what I feel. At the same time, I'm not afraid of praising players for what they've done, even if in the moment they probably haven't done as much as they needed to get the praise. But for me, I think he needs that praise to get to the next level. So I'm going to give him something. But I make him aware: "I've given you something, but I'm expecting more from you." It's like my dad giving me, "You need to be better, you need to do more," because he knows I'm capable of more. And this is why I demand from the players. I'm very strong on them because I really believe in them. I've said this so many times to so many different players: trust me, the day I stop talking to you, the day I stop shouting at you, is because I don't believe in you anymore and I don't believe you can improve anymore.
The Rollercoaster of Results and Managerial Changes
Steven Bartlett: Your time at Manchester United has been a bit of a roller coaster — up and down and up and down. You went second, then dropped down the league, second again. The last two years have been a prime example of that, finishing near the bottom end of the table, and then this year back up to third. As a fan, when things get bad and you hear all these rumors that the manager is going to be sacked — you've been through it so many times where a manager has been removed — what's that like when you know things are going bad?
Bruno Fernandes: First of all, you feel it for the manager — that's the first thing. Obviously certain players will feel it more than others, because it's the players that play more than others. The ones that probably don't play don't like to see managers going, but at the same time, if a new manager comes in, it's a new opportunity for them to probably get into the team more than they were getting before.
Going through the process of changing managers is probably the worst thing in sports, because it's starting from zero again. Either people believe it or not — when you're through a process, you want to get to the end of it and understand what it has given you as a player, and what you can do more with that staff, that team, and that manager to go even further.
Steven Bartlett: Why didn't you lose hope? Because you went through that process of starting from zero, making progress, manager goes, back to zero, making progress, manager goes, back to zero.
Bruno Fernandes: Every time you come for preseason, it's like a new start and you always get that belief of, "This is going to be the time." There are moments through the season where you get the belief that things are not going well. But the main thing I have is belief in myself. I always think: if I do things right, and I take people to do things right, and I help them to do things right, as a team we still have a chance of pushing ourselves into the positions we want to be.
This season has been that case. We struggled — we didn't change manager because of results, because we were two points behind second place and about five points behind first place. From third to seventh place, everyone had the same points or something like that. So there was something different with the club — they felt the trust between them was broken or whatever, and they decided to start a new process. That was bad, because when Reuben came, what was passed from the club was, "This is going to be a process, we're going to go through good and bad times." Then the club decided it was time to part ways, and you started from zero again with Michael. But then you got results, went to the end of the season, finished third. From the time Michael was here till now, we're probably the team that has made the most points.
Michael Carrick as Manager
Steven Bartlett: What did Michael change?
Bruno Fernandes: In the first moment, what Michael tried to do was give stability to the team, because as every manager understands when they come in after a break, you need to give stability and peace of mind to the players to get back to the level he thought we could have. He brought the foundation and the base that has been in this club from the time he played until the time he managed and then left. He knows the club, he knows how the club wants to play, and he knows what the fans want to see.
Steven Bartlett: How is he different? What does Michael bring as a manager? I know just an hour ago or so it was announced that he's going to be the Manchester United manager going forward, which is great news. If you had to describe him to me as a leader and a manager, how is he different?
Bruno Fernandes: He gives you a lot of calmness in terms of what he wants from the team, the way he demands, the way he coaches. He gives you a good way of going to the game with a good peace of mind but with a lot of responsibility. From the time he was here with Sir Alex, he gave a lot of responsibility to the players to make decisions and make choices on the pitch that have to be on you. He gives you the base, the foundation, certain rules that are the non-negotiables. But then he also knows and wants us to take some responsibility through the game, because things might change.
You prepare a game for a full week, but the team could come and do a different thing. You prepare to play against a 4-3-3 because they always played 4-3-3, and then they come and play 3-5-2. And now the manager can't be on the sideline telling you where to press and where to go for every single moment. So as players, you have the foundation, the base, the non-negotiable rules, and from there on you need to find a way: "Okay, let's get compact, let's get together. They don't get into our block. When we have the ball, we play with the ball. We get into the attacking phase, and then the manager will give us the message he wants to give or whatever he's seen that we need to do differently." That's what he gave us — the calmness, the way he prepares games. And when things were not going the way we wanted, he gave responsibility to the players to make it work.
Steven Bartlett: So like a bit of freedom?
Bruno Fernandes: It's not exactly freedom, because freedom is a different thing. He gives you freedom with the ball to make decisions because he says that's your responsibility on the ball. "I can't tell you where to pass the ball. I can't tell you where to shoot. I can help you where the space is going to be." And I think the most important thing for a player is knowing where space is going to be. You need to know where spaces are to then play with it. You know they have big gaps there that we can hurt them from. This is the message Michael has passed to the team: if we attack from here, they have less people on this side, we can bring more people in the box from this side. We want a very good counter-press because they have two strikers, so we need three people in the back — two of them mark, one stays behind. These are the small things and the foundation he gives us. But then he says many times, "I can't tell you where to pass. I can't tell you where to shoot. I give you the solutions, but they might not be there. So you have to find a way of making the good pass, the good shot, the good decision, because I'm not going to be in your head in that moment."
In their heads it's going to be the ideas he gave them, and some of them will be good, some won't work out. So you have to understand the good ones he gave you, and the other ones that are not working well, you need to find a way to make it work.
Steven Bartlett: So he gives you the principles rather than specific instructions on how to play?
Bruno Fernandes: He gives you the principles, but then he lets you balance through the game. He lets the players read the game. Because in 90 minutes many things happen and it's not always going to happen the way you saw in the video. Hopefully yes, but not always. For example, we had the chance against Nottingham Forest where I passed the ball through Højlund and he scored. We had seen the exact same chance from Villa against Forest — the exact same movements, the exact same passes. We visualized that, and that's why it worked, because we had the ideas. We knew we could make that happen and we made it.
Steven Bartlett: Does he get angry? Because he seems like such a calm guy when you see him in press conferences.
Bruno Fernandes: He did get angry once or twice, but he's very calm in the way he speaks. I think everyone gets angry anyway. But he's a very calm presence and someone that speaks very well, knows the timing, knows the words, knows what to say. Whenever he got more aggressive with us, it was the time we needed that from him.
Risk and Reward: Bruno's Playing Style
Steven Bartlett: The way you play is interesting. When I was looking at a bunch of your quotes over time, and also how I think about business — you are a player that takes more risks than most people. We talk a lot about failure in business and how you have to increase your rate of failure to get better outcomes. But you're a player that is not shy of taking a risk. You play in a way where you sometimes lose the ball, but you're also generating more opportunities than any other player on the pitch. How do you think about this? Because the way you play means that sometimes you're going to make a lot of mistakes.
Bruno Fernandes: I think it's always risk-reward. You need to understand how much reward you're going to get from that, and if taking that risk is good for the team or not. The position I play — taking risks has to be one of your main skills, to do things that the game demands from you and to make sure your teammates in front get the ball in positions where their rate of success for scoring a goal is going to be higher. I might miss two or three times, but if I get one right, that can become a goal for us. And there's nothing better than a risk-reward that is a goal.
When you play as a number 10, obviously you don't want to lose the ball — you have to make that as rare as possible. But in certain positions, you lose the ball more often than others. Wingers will lose the ball more on one-v-ones than midfielders do. Fullbacks will do more crosses than center backs will do. Number sixes will make more tackles than a striker will do. There's a balance in the team that you need to have. Let's imagine I play with Kobbie and Casemiro — they're not risk players. So if I take four risky passes and they take one each, that's six times a game. I need to be the one that takes four. They need to be the ones that take one each, because their responsibility in the team is to make the team play from the buildup, push the team forward, and then get the ball into the players that have to take the risks. Because if you don't have players that take the risks, you're going to end up just passing it around.
For example, Man City — Guardiola, tiki-taka, all these things. Kevin De Bruyne was the player that took the risks. Rodri is not the player that takes the risks. Phil Foden, Doku, Mahrez — they're the ones taking the risks on a one-v-one.
Steven Bartlett: Has a manager ever told you to take less risks?
Bruno Fernandes: Erik told me to take less shots from outside the box. He showed me a board with my success rating — shots on target, shots off target, and goals. He showed me the positions where I was more effective and told me, "I think you need to get more into these positions to then make your shot."
Steven Bartlett: Into what positions?
Bruno Fernandes: Let's say close to the box — more towards the left-hand side, you score more goals. More towards the right-hand side, you aim more towards the middle of the edge of the box, you miss more shots. So he was like, "Get more into the left side, or get more into the right side, or close range." But then obviously we come back to risk and reward, because sometimes you're going to score a great goal from 25 yards out. But how many times are you going to do it out of five? Maybe you score one, and that's already a lot. So I need to make that risk become less and less, getting more risk probably from 18 yards, because there the possibility of me scoring a goal might be three in five, because I'm much closer. I can put more power on the ball. I can be much more effective.
Tactical Breakdown: Where Bruno Plays Best
Steven Bartlett: You've had lots of managers, so they've all asked you to play in different positions. But on this pitch here, where is it that you like to play the most?
Bruno Fernandes: The positions where I can be most effective — let's say I need a square here. Imagine we're attacking this side. This is the space where I think I can be most effective, in this square here. Different managers asked you to play in different positions within here. For example, with Reuben, he used to play three at the back, one wing back, two midfielders, another wing back, and two strikers. I played a lot of times in this position when he first came — he wanted me to be one of these two to help the two midfielders to build up and to get the striker higher in position when he could be in the last line, and to get the ball into these two.
Steven Bartlett: What position would you call that?
Bruno Fernandes: This was the left 10, let's say. But he wanted me to play more like a left midfielder — to help them have more stability in the middle, and to get the ball going forward, to take the risk of passing the ball forward. Then I played a lot of times here. When I played here, he wanted me to come and do the overload. So we had one more player to build up, so they would open up a little bit more. Normally it was Luke Shaw as a fullback playing in this space, so we could drive the ball and they couldn't press with the three they had — they wouldn't be able to press because we always had this one also to bounce the ball. Then whenever we went up the pitch with the ball, he wanted me here — to play a little bit higher, to be one of the three number 10s and make this line of three 10s.
Then for example with Ole, we would play 4-2-3-1 and I would be the number 10. He wanted me to do this — go across — and sometimes he wanted me to get the ball here or here to make the long passes and the switches to the wingers.
I think this bit here in the middle is where I can be most effective. If you ask me where I prefer to play — anywhere on the pitch. But for the way we play, this is the position where I can be most effective. I really enjoy playing here because I enjoy getting the team to play. I played many times with Tengaard like this — I was the number six playing with the other two, and I really enjoyed it. It made me a different player — more aggressive off the ball, someone that has to cover spaces.
Steven Bartlett: Regardless of where you are on the pitch, what is non-negotiable in terms of how you play?
Bruno Fernandes: Commitment. That's non-negotiable. The commitment I have for what we have to do doesn't change by me liking the position or not, preferring one position or the other. Running, fighting, and team spirit can never be missing.
Fitness, Training, and Stamina
Steven Bartlett: It doesn't appear to me that you ever get tired. And one remarkable thing about you is you don't seem to ever get injured.
Bruno Fernandes: I get tired and I have got injured, unfortunately.
Steven Bartlett: But how does that happen? Because I watch you run in the 89th minute and you're still running up and down. Is that genetic or is that something you do in training?
Bruno Fernandes: I have to say I have good genetics, but I was talking with the nutritionist about this the other day — genetics, how you treat yourself and everything. But then I said to them, "You know what's different about me compared to the others? I always train 100%. I make training like a game. I go full. If I don't feel good, I need to do some extras. If I feel the training wasn't enough, let's do something else. Let's do some shots, some crosses. Let's do something that makes me go out of training feeling tired."
Steven Bartlett: Why is that important?
Bruno Fernandes: Because in the game you need to get tired, and then you know — for example, when I'm doing shooting practice or last-third passes, I'd rather train that when I'm tired, because it's going to be the last 20 minutes of the game. Your brain is not going to work the same way it was working at the beginning because you get tired and you think a little slower. So you need to be able to train your body and your brain when they are tired. And I think if you do that in training, when you get to the game and you start getting tired, your brain is used to that. Your body is used to being tired and it knows how to react in that moment.
Becoming Captain
Steven Bartlett: These core principles that have been central to how you play led you to being given the captain's armband, which was quite atypical — the captain being displaced while still at the club and someone else being brought in. As fans from the outside, we wonder how Maguire takes that, how Harry reacts to that, but also what that means to you to become captain of your dream club.
Bruno Fernandes: Obviously for me it was a strange time, because I was not expecting it. Tenhag called me to his office to speak with me and to ask me if I wanted to be the captain of the club, because he had decided to change the captain and he wanted me to be the one to lead the team from now on. Obviously the first thought was being very grateful — it was something I had never dreamed about. You can have many dreams, but you don't dream about being the captain of your club. And the second thought was: this is going to be tough on Harry.
The first person I spoke with after I got out of that meeting was Harry, because he already knew — I think the manager had spoken to him. Before I said yes, I went to speak with Harry, because the manager basically asked me the question — he didn't say, "You're going to be the captain, that's it." He asked me. And I went to speak with Harry. The first question I asked was whether he was leaving the club, because as you said, it's not something normal. I've never been through this in my whole career. I spoke with him about the offer they had given me, to be honest with him. And he said, "If there's someone that deserves that, it's you. I'm very happy that it's you getting the captain's armband. If I have to take it off for myself, I think you really deserve that."
And I think that was the point that made me understand I was doing things right. Obviously I know for him it was very difficult, and I don't think he would have said something bad even if he felt it. But the way we spoke, and the way I think I've been treating him through these years — I said straight away to him: "You might have lost the armband, but you're still one of our leaders and that won't change." Everything we've been through — because when Harry was the captain, we always made decisions together, and that hasn't changed. Every time I have to take some decisions for the team, I speak with certain players, and Harry is one of them that is always there.
Record-Breaking Season
Steven Bartlett: Your performance this season speaks for itself. You've had 34 appearances, scored eight goals, 20 assists. You've got 12 player of the match awards — the most by any player in the Premier League — six player of the month awards, and only Sergio Agüero, Harry Kane, and Mohamed Salah have more, all of them with seven. You've also won the Matt Busby Player of the Year award for the fifth time, the most by any other Manchester United player. What has happened? Why does this year stand out?
Bruno Fernandes: For this season, first of all, I think when the team shines, the individual comes up. This season has been much better than the last two seasons. At the same time, the assists record and all the attention around it gave me a lot of headlines. It's an achievement that hasn't been done by many players — just Kevin De Bruyne and Thierry Henry.
Steven Bartlett: I've got the little graph here. I actually spoke to Thierry about this as well and he sends his regards to you, congratulates you on joining him up there with the record.
Bruno Fernandes: It's something I'm very grateful for. I put my name up there with them — it's something I never dreamed about or thought about. I probably started thinking about it when I got to 16 or 17 assists. I was like, "Oh, I'm actually getting closer now." But it was never in my head, because in my head it's always about improving on my last season and getting better numbers, better outputs, better performance. It was never in my mind that I would get to 18, 19, 20 or whatever. But obviously when you start getting close, you start thinking about it a little bit.
And then all of us as fans start watching the games to see if you can do it. I've been very consistent in terms of performance during my six years here. But probably other years there were players that stood out more than me, and that's why I probably didn't get as much attention as I did this season.
Roy Keane and the Twisted Quote
Steven Bartlett: With being captain and being at the biggest club in the world, with that comes pressure and responsibility — the world talks about you. People are talking even more about Bruno Fernandes than I've ever seen. With that comes even more criticism. I wanted to clear something up because it was on my mind, and I imagine it's frustrating for you — when your words are twisted in the media. Recently Roy Keane criticized your mentality based on a quote he got completely backwards. He claimed you said, "I should have shot, but I made the pass," and used that to suggest you were chasing individual assist stats. But everyone who actually listened to the interview, including myself, knows you said almost the exact opposite — you were being self-critical, saying you should have passed the ball instead of shot because you wanted the best for your team. And interestingly, because I've spoken to so many of your teammates over the last couple of days about you, they also told me this is the exact opposite of your mentality on the pitch and off the pitch. How do you respond to that?
Bruno Fernandes: To be honest, I've always said I don't mind criticism. I've always taken criticism from everyone and anyone and I never reply to anything. People have an opinion — they think it's good, bad, whatever. What I don't like was when people lie about things. And this case that you said about Roy Keane — basically what he said is a lie, because either he saw some other interview, or he can't say that I said one thing that I just didn't say. And luckily for me, everything is on record. Imagine if it wasn't — then people would think, "Oh yeah, Bruno is the guy always trying to get the assist." But one thing that is consistent is my number of chances created is always the same. It's not that I've been trying to reach this record now. I've been creating chances since I came to the Premier League, probably more than anyone else. So it hasn't changed — my type of play or way of playing hasn't changed since I came to the Premier League. It's not that this season Roy Keane saw Bruno creating more because he wanted the assist record. He's seeing the same Bruno that is about risk-reward, about creating chances for his teammates, about getting the best out of the others.
Because the thing is, you'll get criticized either way. If you're scoring goals, you'll get criticized because you're not passing the ball and you're shooting. If you're doing assists, it's because you're passing too much and not shooting to score goals. So it's always going to be like that. People will always make the balance the way they want. They won't balance things fairly — they'll put it the way they want things to be.
I've always shown a lot of respect for Roy Keane and for everything he's done for the club, and for everything he's always said. I've never had something to say. I've never said something wrong. I even asked Ole for his number to text him, to be honest, to have a word with him — to say I don't mind the criticism, I don't like when people lie about things I say. Because this goes a little bit over the top of the things I think are acceptable. I accept criticism. I accept that he can say things I don't like. But what I don't like is that people put their own words on what I say when it's not true.
He can criticize me, kill me, say that I'm not good enough, that I'm not a good captain, that I'm not a good player for the club — whatever. It's okay. I don't mind. Is it his opinion? I don't like it, obviously. I prefer Roy Keane to give me some praise sometimes, because I've achieved something that not many players have achieved. I understand that this club is about winning trophies. I've never taken that off my mind. I've always said in front of everyone that I want to win the Premier League and the Champions League. I never said I wanted to be the best player in the Premier League. Never. Not one time has any person heard Bruno say he wanted to get the assist record or the goals record or the player of the season or to be better than anyone else. Bruno wants the club to be successful. Bruno wants the club to win trophies. That's all Bruno wants. I accept his criticism. I accept that he might not like me as a player or as a person. But what I don't like is that he puts words in my mouth that have not been said. That's the only thing I don't like.
Teammates Speak About Bruno
Steven Bartlett: I did actually ask your teammates what you were like — on and off camera, on and off the record. I couldn't get some of them to be very serious, but what I received is lots and lots of voice notes from lots and lots of your former players. I texted around last night and I'll play you what they said.
"My friend Bruno, taking this opportunity to spread some love to you. I just wanted to take this opportunity to tell you how much we value you as a player and as a person. I think not many people get to see how you are after the games and outside of the pitch. So I would say that's one of your best qualities — the way you care, the way you're one of the first to help everyone, your leadership, your consistency. That's something that I take from your example and you know it. It's been a lot of years together right now. So hopefully this can continue and we can win so many things together."
"A world class footballer, consistently world class as well, which is very difficult. I think everyone knows how good you are. But I think more importantly, from my view, is how you are as a human being, and that's a side that not many people get to see — the caring, compassionate, supporting, demanding at the right times. But yeah, I think for me that is by far and away probably your best quality, why you're the leader of this team and such a good human being. So for me, proud to call you captain, but more importantly, a friend. Top class."
"I mean, what he does on the pitch obviously speaks for itself. But away from football, he's an unbelievable human being. The way he treats people, looks after people, the way he lifts others when they need it, and I feel like the respect he gives everyone around him — that says everything about his character. And I feel like I've been lucky to spend a number of years with him. He's one of those people that you kind of appreciate having around you every single day. He's the type of player who makes people around him better without even trying. We love you, Capitano."
Steven Bartlett: I had so many more, but we just don't have the time.
Bruno Fernandes: The standout from that for me is just the way they speak about me as a person, not more as a player. You picked some people that I'm very demanding on — Diego and Luke have probably been with me the most time. Tom is probably up there with Harry, Luke, Diego, and then Tom. These are people I really respect a lot. But as I said to you, it's not what they say about me as a player — it's more what they say about me as a person that makes me very proud and very happy. You can be a good player, and I'm going to meet a lot of good players in the world of football. But what stays at the end is the way you behave as a person. And I like to see that I have the good values that my parents showed me.
Steven Bartlett: That's what I said at the start when you started describing what your parents had instilled in you back in Porto. It sounded like what all your colleagues and the players you play with said to me as well. Because I've done this before and people will say, "Oh, he's a great player, he's amazing." But what was consistently true through all of those messages is they all chose to speak about you as a human.
Bruno Fernandes: Yeah.
Steven Bartlett: And that clearly comes from whatever your parents did at a young age. Why does that mean so much to you? I can see it in your face.
Bruno Fernandes: Because as I said, as a player you can be as good as you want. At the end of the day, the way you behave and the way you treat people around you is the most important thing, because you spend so much time with them that they kind of become part of your day-to-day. You see them more often than you see your parents. Obviously my wife and my kids are the people I see the most, but after that it's them. I don't see my friends from Portugal as often as them, my parents, my brother, my sister. I see them more. And the way I behave, the way I've been raised, the way I want to live my life, and the way I want my kids to be — that's what they've said about me, and this makes me very proud.
Steven Bartlett: What is that emotion?
Bruno Fernandes: I don't know. It's just good to hear that. Just that.
Steven Bartlett: It's so interesting, because I don't think anybody else I've met would respond the way you're responding to hearing people talk about you as a man and as a human.
Bruno Fernandes: I don't know. I'm just a soft guy. It doesn't look like it on the pitch, but I'm quite a soft guy.
Turning Down £200 Million
Steven Bartlett: One of the things I learned through my investigations is that you have a clause in your contract — you don't have to confirm or deny this — which allows you to leave for, I found out, £60 million. And you chose not to leave Manchester United. You got a very, very large financial offer. I've seen some of the numbers reported — up to £200 million — to leave Manchester United, and you chose not to leave. You could have ridden off into the sunset. The way you were playing, you could have gone to almost any club in the world. You could have got paid more and probably would have had a more certain guarantee of winning silverware. And for some reason, you chose to stay. When that offer came in, reportedly from the Middle East, for a contract worth reportedly £200 million — why didn't you go?
Bruno Fernandes: I said it before — I haven't fulfilled my dreams here at this club.
Steven Bartlett: Was that a conversation you had with your wife?
Bruno Fernandes: Yeah, also.
Steven Bartlett: What was that conversation? She seems to be there all the time when you make these big decisions.
Bruno Fernandes: Of course. She's the one — I never make a decision by myself, because obviously moving around nowadays with two kids has a lot to say. And more than becoming the richest person in my own town, I want to live my dreams and pass on the values to my kids that they need to have. My family is always going to be the number one priority in everything I do. Because they followed my dream. My wife — I know on the other side it looks like a great life, a lot of money, a lot of good things. But she chose to live my dream with me, and that says a lot about her. Because when she chose to do that, I was 17 years old going to a club with, let's say, 1,500 a month in Italy — a lot of uncertainty. She had her own life, her own dreams. And she said, "I'm going to help you." And that's what she did from day one until now. So she always has a say in everything I do.
Steven Bartlett: And you've been with her since you were 16.
Bruno Fernandes: Yeah. She was 16, I was about to be 17. And after that we've constructed a beautiful family — two beautiful kids.
Steven Bartlett: So on that day when you get the big offer to leave Manchester United, she's the first person you speak to.
Bruno Fernandes: Of course. As always, I spoke first with my agent because he speaks with me about the offer. But then the first thing I did was call her. I think I was in Hong Kong — we were on the post-season tour — and the timing was not the best to talk with her because of the time difference and everything. But she was there again. And the words she said were: "Have you achieved everything you wanted to achieve in your career? And is this the next step you want to give for your future and your career?" Because obviously this is the league I want to be in. This is the best league in the world. This is where I'm going to enjoy my football as I'm not going to enjoy it in any other place. So we still have dreams to fulfill.
Steven Bartlett: Why does that make you emotional?
Bruno Fernandes: I don't know. Talking about family — it's tough. Because in the football career you go through a lot of ups and downs and a lot of difficult moments. And the ones that suffer most are the family, because they see your good moments, your bad moments, your good side, your bad side also. But they always stand by you. That's the most important thing you can have in life. And she's always been there.
Steven Bartlett: She looks like my fiancée a little bit. She's Portuguese.
Bruno Fernandes: Portuguese girl. Yeah.
Steven Bartlett: Very down to earth, I hear.
Bruno Fernandes: Yeah. She's the one that pushes me down to earth also. When I'm probably getting too much or feeling too big, she's always very tough on me to make me understand there are still things to improve. She's the second version of my dad, probably. That's why I chose her and she chose me in a certain way.
Steven Bartlett: Does she know this? Have you been able to tell her?
Bruno Fernandes: Yeah. She's going to — I can't say the word — she's going to say I'm very soft after she sees this and sees me crying. Let's say I'm the affectionate one, the one that likes Uggs. She's more — I think through her life she had many things going on and she built this thing around her where she doesn't need much outward love or whatever. But there are many moments where I know she needs it, I know she feels it. She's just not good at saying what she feels. And I'm more open. I show more my emotions. I show more if I care, if I don't care, if I suffer, if I don't suffer. She kind of closes it a little bit for herself. But she's a very strong woman, to be honest.
Steven Bartlett: I know you have two beautiful kids together.
Bruno Fernandes: We have a beautiful girl — that was the first one, at the time we were in Italy. And then came little Gonzalo when we were in England. So one that she's always saying is half Italian, and one that basically looks British — white, blonde. One half English, let's say, and then two full Portuguese people.
Steven Bartlett: I didn't realize your celebration where you cover your ears is for your daughter.
Bruno Fernandes: Yeah. She used to do it when she was younger. She's too old for that now. She's a little Anna now — very strong-minded, very strong attitude. She has a lot from me in terms of being very strong. She can take care of herself very well. Exactly like her mom.
Loyalty, Gratitude, and the Future
Steven Bartlett: I wanted to say thank you. I'm a Man United fan, and hearing that you've gone through this very tumultuous period with the club, where you could have gone, where you've had many offers from many people to do something else — and you've had offers where people offered you even more money — and for whatever reason, and I think I now understand because I've understood your values that your parents instilled in you, you chose to stay and to stick with us as a club and as a fan base. So on behalf of myself and all my friends that are Man United fans and the Manchester United fan base, I just wanted to say a huge thank you. Loyalty is increasingly rare these days in football. As a Man United fan, thank you so much. By doing that, you've also taught me something as a man — what loyalty is and how you treat other people. You've taught me a lesson about responsibility in my businesses, in my relationships, and in my life. There are so many young men that look up to you. What you've said through the good and the bad times is that you keep on going, you keep on fighting, you don't give up, you don't quit. And it's so great that the captain of the biggest club on earth has those values and puts those values before other things that might tempt someone with less integrity. So I just wanted to say a huge thank you. And I'm also passing that on from many of your teammates, who are very, very glad that you stayed.
Bruno Fernandes: Thank you very much. I really appreciate that. That's very kind words from you.
Steven Bartlett: And I hope you stay even longer, because I think we're coming into an interesting period at Manchester United where I think we have a lot of the foundations in place now to carry on.
Bruno Fernandes: That's what I hope. And I think not just the club, but everything in general — the fans and everyone — really deserve to be back to the glory days.
INEOS, Structure, and the Path Forward
Steven Bartlett: Things have changed. INEOS are here now. I know quite a lot of the guys at INEOS. I was away on the tour with a couple of them during the American preseason tour, and one of the things they said to me is that when they arrived at the club there wasn't structure. And it's so rare that you have this huge gap between the manager and the ownership, or the players and the ownership. They've put that structure in place now. How has it changed with INEOS's arrival?
Bruno Fernandes: I think first of all it was important because, as you said, not that we didn't have a structure, but it was very difficult for players to understand where they had to go to talk in certain situations. We were not very clear on who we should talk with. And now I think it's very clear — you have Jason, then you have Omar, and then you have Jim. I'm very aware that the structure we have now is a good foundation and a good base for us to understand where and which places we need to go if we need something, as a club or as players.
Steven Bartlett: Has it improved?
Bruno Fernandes: We started a process with Reuben where we thought it would be a process of three or four years — that was the plan of the club. Then we know there was a break in the relationship between the manager and the club and they had to change, unfortunately. And now today they have announced that they want to go in a direction with Michael, and hopefully for me I hope that he stays stable, because the main thing the club needs is stability in terms of management. If you really believe that Michael is the guy and you've taken him to the job, I think you have to give him the foundations he needs to build what he thinks he needs for a successful team. At the same time, you've brought someone in that knows what the values of the club are. And I think that's the main thing — the most important thing — that the club brings people in that know the values and know what's needed and have a great character to be at this club.
Steven Bartlett: And Michael is the guy?
Bruno Fernandes: Yeah. Because as I said, he's the one that knows the club better than any player here. He's been probably more time at the club than anyone. I've been with him as a player, assistant manager, and then manager. The way he behaves shows that he has the character to be the manager of Manchester United. I think that's very important — to have someone who, through the full process, will always know where he wants to go, where he wants to be, and how much he wants this club to succeed.
Steven Bartlett: You said to me earlier that since Michael Carrick has joined, Manchester United have won more points than any club in the Premier League, and that's statistically accurate. For this to continue going forward, obviously the summer is going to be really important. What needs to happen this summer in your opinion for Manchester United to continue to move up and potentially even fight for the title?
Bruno Fernandes: We need recruitment. We know we're losing Casemiro — there's a pal thing we had there. So we're going to need a player to replace him, either someone already in the house or someone coming in. We need to reinforce the team to become stronger. Not "we need the best player in the world" — no. We need players that want to come to United, that understand we're through a process, that we want to win the league but it might not happen immediately. This is the way we want to go to become the successful club we were before. So the recruitment has to be the right one. We need to bring the right people in again, as we did last summer. I think Reuben was great in the choices he made to bring the players he did to the club — good characters, good players, good professionals. And I think that's very important for the next window.
Closing Question: Five Years of Success
Steven Bartlett: Bruno, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're leaving it for. The question that's been left for you is: if we sat here in five years' time and the five years that had just passed were a huge success, what would have had to have happened?
Bruno Fernandes: Let's say I've won the Premier League, I've won the Champions League with the club, and we've brought the club back to the place it has to be. Obviously, in five years' time, I would like to be able to touch one of the gold ones too with my national team. That's my biggest goal in terms of career — probably the World Cup. Because winning the Premier League and the Champions League with this club will be amazing, but representing my nation will always be the biggest achievement I have in my career, because not many players get to do that. Representing your country — this is when you represent your people, when you represent your parents, your brother, sister, wife, kids. You represent that small nation — small in size but big in quality and big in love, a fearless country that has conquered the world many times in different ways. To do it in a football way would be a great achievement for us.
Steven Bartlett: Irrespective of what happens here, and I very much believe that Manchester United now has the potential to go and challenge for these trophies — because of all the hard work that has been put in by many people in this club, but also because of your loyalty — irrespective of what happens, you're going to be a cult hero at this club forever. Not just because of the football, but because you've done something which is even harder and even more rare in the modern world. You've shown tremendous loyalty, unbelievable character, you've shown humanity, and you've set an example for the club when we were at our weakest, when we needed someone to do that the most. It's all well and good doing it when everything's great. But being that committed and that loyal, and setting that much of an example, and continuing to run on the pitch, and being an exceptional human off the pitch when times are hard — I think that says even more about a man. So again, on behalf of all the Man United fans, a huge, huge thank you.
Bruno Fernandes: Thank you. Thank you very much. Well done. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.